Clinical rotation questions & opinions

[xvipx]

Hi i wanted to know exactly what states and major cities we are allowed to do clinical rotations in? Are there any hospitals in Michigan? Also what do i need to do in order to transfer from another school? Thanks.

[SMU_Information]

70% of U.S. clinical students go to either Atlanta, Chicago, or Baltimore for their core clinicals. Other major core clinical sites include Orlando, Detroit, and London (England).

Rotations are available in FL, GA, IL, MD, MI, MO, NM, NY, OH, VA, and WV.

As far as transferring from another school, all you need to do is to include a transcript from your current med school with the regular application package, and notate that you are seeking advanced standing.

Thanks for your interest in SMU!

[xvipx]

Thanks so much for the info. I found a page on the st. matthews website about the states they are affiliated with and michigan wasn't one of them. I am a bit confused. I would like to do rotations in Detroit if possible. Can you let me know if you are sure Michigan is included because the website says it's not. Thanks.

http://www.stmatthews.edu/rotation.html

[turtlealbert]

Hi, Mr. Yates,
I also have question about clinical rotation. I know there may not be a core rotation offered in Washington. Yet, is any elective rotation available over there? Thanks!

[SMU_Information]

xvipx, The website still reflects the old catalog. We are putting together the new catalog, but there are several new developments that we want to make sure are included, so it's on hold for right now.

As you can see, we no longer offer rotations in Arizona, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, and North Carolina. We have added Michigan, Missouri, New York (limited unless approval comes through this summer), Ohio, Virginia, and West Virginia. We are always trying to secure higher quality rotations for our students, and sometimes that means dropping sites in favor of others. So this list might change again by the time you get to clinicals.

All cores are currently available in the Detroit Metro with the exception of Psych, I believe.

turtlealbert, you can absolutely do electives in Washington. Just make sure you clear all of your choices with the Clinical Dean.

As always, I'm available if you have any other questions.

[charlottenian]

xvipx, The website still reflects the old catalog. We are putting together the new catalog, but there are several new developments that we want to make sure are included, so it's on hold for right now.

As you can see, we no longer offer rotations in Arizona, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, and North Carolina. We have added Michigan, Missouri, New York (limited unless approval comes through this summer), Ohio, Virginia, and West Virginia. We are always trying to secure higher quality rotations for our students, and sometimes that means dropping sites in favor of others. So this list might change again by the time you get to clinicals.

All cores are currently available in the Detroit Metro with the exception of Psych, I believe.

turtlealbert, you can absolutely do electives in Washington. Just make sure you clear all of your choices with the Clinical Dean.

As always, I'm available if you have any other questions.

I am a NC resident and was hoping I could do my rotations close to home... Is their rotations in neighboring states like SC, VA, TN, GA?

[SMU_Information]

You can do all of your cores in Atlanta, and there are rotations available in Virginia.

Remember, you may be able to do your electives in NC, as long as you gothrough the Clinical Dean.

Have a great day!

[charlottenian]

You can do all of your cores in Atlanta, and there are rotations available in Virginia.

Remember, you may be able to do your electives in NC, as long as you gothrough the Clinical Dean.

Have a great day!

sounds good thanks!

[xvipx]

I emailed someone in the admissions department. I let them know that i was considering transfering from MUA. They told me if i transfered i would NOT get any credit for my courses at MUA. What is that about? MUA is a very tough school and even Ross gives transfer credits from here. It is a very good school, just new like SMU. Can you let me know what this is about and whether there is any way to transfer credits. No point on transfering if i have to take my classes again. Thanks

[SMU_Information]

Transfers are all considered on an individual basis. There are no medical schools on a "banned" list at SMU.

They may have confused it with the pre-med program, whose credits SMU generally does not accept to gain admission.

However, if you're just trying to transfer the med school credits, there is no policy in place that would automatically disqualify them or any other school. Each advanced standing application is reviewed by the Vice-President and the Admissions Committee.

Hope that helps!

[turtlealbert]

Hi, Mr. Yates,
Thanks for your info. it sounds good to me. Thank! Oh, by the way, One more question. I know this topic may have been brought up numerous times, but would like to check it again. From what I know, the California inspector has visited the school, and how long do you think the school will get approved for california. or, it's all up to them? And for NY, right now, only 12 weeks max can we do rotation there, right? and the decision that whether NY will approve, is going to be made this summer? Lastly, if I enter this fall, 2004. and somehow, the school get approved of either California or NY, or both, am I eligible of doing rotation there though I attend school before the time they approve? Thanks!

[SMU_Information]

It has been asked before, but always bears revisiting.

NY has completed all of their site visits. Their decision should be announced sometime this summer. You should have no issues if NY approves us, as you commenced your studies after their visit.

CA will be visiting this summer (delayed due to the gubernatorial recall from last fall). Each of their decisions is unique, which means that no one would be able to answer that until the decision is announced.. Just in the realm of pure speculation, I would think that if you started in May, that tyou are experiencing the curriculum as CA observed it, so would probably be ok if we were approved.

So, a quick recap of restrictions on SMU:

Clinicals:

CA (unlimited if approved)
ME
TX
KS (until 2012)
NJ
NY (12 weeks max, unlimited if approved this year)

Residency:

CA (unlimited if approved)
TX (for all intents and purposes)
KS (until 2012)
NY (unlimited if approved this year)

Licensing:

CA (unlimited if approved)
KS (until 2012)

and TX is very difficult for this as well currently.

As always, double-check with your State Medical Board to make sure you and your clinical choices will allow you to be licensed.

[turtlealbert]

Thanks Mr. Yates,
Your informations are really helpful. Thanks!

[MedSter]

To the student who was concerned about transferring from MUA Nevis...
I wouldnt worry too much about your credits being transferable. There is a student here from MUA Nevis who's credits transferred completely I believe. So my advice to you is just talk to the admissions department or whoever is in charge of credit approval and they do evaluate the cases on case by case basis. But remember SMU HAS accepted credits from MUA Nevis, so dont be discouraged.

[Junito]

What restrictions exist in Florida (in respect to rotations)? Can a student complete all clinical rotations in Orlando (both cores and electives)? Thanks for all the information you are providing. I find it to be very helpful.

Juni711

[SMU_Information]

Yes, it is possible to do all of your cores in Orlando.

Also, NY is now off the above restricted list. SMU has been fully approved by the State of New York.

[Junito]

Here are a few things that may help you get things done in a timely manner for clinicals:

1- Get your Hep B shots ASAP. The school requires proof that you are immune to the Varicella, Hep B, Measles, Mumps and Rubella via antibody titers. I was informed by a nurse at SJC that it takes about two months after your last Hep B vaccination to show up in the titer.

2- Basic Life Support class...This was taken by students at the Maine Campus (not sure about Cayman). The clinical office will need a copy of the card that was sent to you (the blue, red, and white card that has the American Heart Association logo on it). Some sites may require proof that you took this course.

3-Have a CV ready...This will be required to be sent in with your lab results. I typed it up as a resume. Didn't know the difference between the two (only that the CV lists papers and research etc).

4- Finally, the clinical packet...Fill it out and hand it in on the deadline date. (common sense, but a few did not do so last semester).

This is all explained in the Clinical packet given out in the clinical fair, but some people have overlooked this.

[dadofsmustudent]

1. Take an online Blood Pathogen Class
2. Be HIPPA certified through online class

[Banker794]

SMU now is showing HIPPA to all 5th semester students. We have a 30 minute video scheduled for monday.

[Junito]

HIPAA: http://hdmcorp.com/hipaa/discoveringhipaa.htm ($55) http://www.discoveringhipaa.com/our_courses/index.jsp

HIPAA: http://www.gatlineducation.com

OSHA: http://www.osha.gov

OSHA: http://www.advanceonline.com ($24.95) offer various other courses (BBP, etc).

Blood Borne Pathogens: http://www.emergencyuniversity.com ($19.95)

Blood Borne Pathogens: http://www.eduware.com ($125)

Universal Precautions (infection control): http://www.training-classes.com

Universal Precautions (infection control): http://www.iceinstitute.com ($15)

[Junito]

The above sites were a list provided by the clinical dept for students. I know in Maine we recieved training in CPR & AED (BLS), so for that reason I did not list those sites.

[neeL24]

Why are there so few clinicals that smu is affiliated with that are greenbook? Why cant they create contracts with more hospitals?

[Rob White]

Goto the Sub-Forum at the top of the page, all the info is there!

SMU Medical School Clinicals (http://www.valuemd.com/smu-medical-school-clinicals/)

[Banker794]

SMU has a few rotations at peninsula hospital in NY being given a D.O approval. What does that ultimately mean in terms of being blue and green? ANyone know if they are considered green?

[Jeep23Guy]

I'm pretty sure those are considered green, but I would like to know for sure as well...anybody have a definite answer?

[Junito]

Certain states accept them, while others will not. Pa will not accept any DO rotations. There is another state, but I forgot which one. So, if your state accepts DO rotations, then they are green. If you are not sure which state you want to practice in...I would consider them blue.

[Banker794]

Do Illinois or NY require all green sites?

[mcune11]

Think NY allows blue and green. I am not 100% certain. Can anyone verify what I am saying is correct?

[Banker794]

Certain states accept them, while others will not. Pa will not accept any DO rotations. There is another state, but I forgot which one. So, if your state accepts DO rotations, then they are green. If you are not sure which state you want to practice in...I would consider them blue.

During clinical orientation this week the question was asked by a student. The reply was that AOA/DO are considered green rotations.

[stookie]

Is it possible to complete all you core rotations in New York?? Are you bound to hospitals that the school is associated with?? I would be interested in doing rotations in Jamacia Hospital, and Sound Shore medical center. Anyone has any info about this??

[Junito]

Except for OB/GYN, all the cores can be completed in NY at ACGME approved sites. I know for I have IM, Peds, Surg, Psych all scheduled in NYC. I requested FP in Florida, but FP can be done in NYC also.

All cores have to be done at an SMU affiliated facility. So if you got a "Connection" this has to be available to all, and not only yourself, or else they won't approve it. This is only for cores, not electives. Hope this helps.

[Junito]

I should add that the OB/GYN rotation at Wyckoff is an AOA/DO rotation that is "Green" in NY, but "Blue" in PA.

[stookie]

So electives can be done at any hospital in states that SMU is approved in?? To get licensed in NY, CT or NJ does all of your rotation have to be green? (including electives??) Can IM, Peds, Surg, Psych be done at the same hospital in New York?? Are they available at St.Barnabas?? also, is the a cap as to how many week you can rotate at a hospital that is not affiliated with the school?? (sorry for asking so many questions)

[SMU-Info]

So electives can be done at any hospital in states that SMU is approved in?? To get licensed in NY, CT or NJ does all of your rotation have to be green? (including electives??) Can IM, Peds, Surg, Psych be done at the same hospital in New York?? Are they available at St.Barnabas?? also, is the a cap as to how many week you can rotate at a hospital that is not affiliated with the school?? (sorry for asking so many questions)

You can see where we offer core rotations online at http://www.stmatthews.edu/clinicalsites.html . To find out what you need to get licensed in a particular state, you should check out that state's medical board. Keep in mind that if you are just starting medical school, these requirments could very well change by the time you enter rotations. For more information, contact the clinical department at 1.800.498.9700

[Junito]

Look at the California sticky. States which would present a problem for SMU (either due to the Cali denial or due to individual state decisions) are listed.

If you would like to find more info on a state's medical board, check out the Federation of State Medical Boards: www.fsmb.org

Honestly, most of your questions were addressed in previous threads. Do a search and you will find the answers.

[Banker794]

Formulate a long term plan as to where u want to practice. Then call the medical board or check out their websites and make sure you can go there its as simple as that

[dr2bee]

I was just wondering... will the first aid course on those sites mentioned be just as good as the courses offered in portland? Thanks!

[Junito]

Some sites do not accept BLS courses that are taken online. Some do. That depends on the site.

[neeL24]

Hello,
I know that carribean schools often add new clinical affiliations and cancel previous affiliations. Id just like to know if SMU plans on adding more clinicals? Why is it difficult to make many clinical affiliations so students have more options?

[Junito]

Hello,
I know that carribean schools often add new clinical affiliations and cancel previous affiliations. Id just like to know if SMU plans on adding more clinicals? Why is it difficult to make many clinical affiliations so students have more options?

I suggest you post this on the official clinical forum. They are better equipped to answer this question:

http://smucayman.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=7c6c4a153bcd58737f01fd3ab34119ae

[jazzcat]

SMU has its main office in Florida. But only has greenbook rotations in FP in the state. Are there plans to offer more greenbook rotations in Florida?

[SMU-Info]

SMU has its main office in Florida. But only has greenbook rotations in FP in the state. Are there plans to offer more greenbook rotations in Florida?

You can contact padams@smucayman.com to see about this.

[stookie]

AOA/DO rotations in New York are considered green?

[Banker794]

They are green for the State of NY. In other states it may be different. Depending on where you plan on ending up call that state's medical board to know for sure.

But for NY they are 100% green

[billydoc]

They are green for the State of NY. In other states it may be different. Depending on where you plan on ending up call that state's medical board to know for sure.

But for NY they are 100% green

I believe AOA rotations are not "green" in Penn State.

[MDhero]

how long do rotations last in SMU?

[Banker794]

how long do rotations last in SMU?

Obviously it depends on the rotation you are in. I think Internal medicine & Surgery are the longest at 12 weeks each

[AUCMD2006]

SMU has its main office in Florida. But only has greenbook rotations in FP in the state. Are there plans to offer more greenbook rotations in Florida?

florida has a ton of med schools and not that many teaching sites so getting rotations there individually are easier than an affiliation with a hospital. just look at the older schools, ross has larkin hospital, auc has two sites used regularly but not formal affiliations, that it after over 20 years in the game.

so will it happen? probably, will it happen in time for you to do all your cores there? not likely especially with the DO school increasing enrollment, FAU and FSU opening med schools.

[Banker794]

Do SMU students where dressy clothes for clinicals? Does a dressy shirt without a tie suffice?

[Junito]

During clinical orientation this week the question was asked by a student. The reply was that AOA/DO are considered green rotations.

Green in NY not in PA and some other states. If you only care about NY then don't worry. Otherwise check with your state medical board.

[solideliquid]

Do SMU students where dressy clothes for clinicals? Does a dressy shirt without a tie suffice?

You will need dress shoes, dress pants, and a dress shirt WITH tie. Don't forget your white coat.


If you are in surgery wear scrubs.

[Jeep23Guy]

I'm wondering specifically about Texas, but I'm sure this question will apply to other states as well.

In Texas Board Rule 162 allows a licensed Texas physician to supervise a medical student that is in one of the following three categories -


(1) is enrolled at a Texas medical school;

(2) is a student at a medical school located outside Texas and is enrolled as a visiting student at a Texas medical school; or

(3) will receive supervised medical education in a Texas hospital or teaching institution sponsoring or participating in a program of graduate medical education accredited by the Accrediting Council for Graduate Medical Education, the American Osteopathic Association, or the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners in the same subject as the medical or osteopathic medical education in which the hospital or teaching institution has an agreement with the applicant’s school.


So when we are doing rotations (3rd and 4th year), are we actually enrolled as a visiting student at a medical school? How would this work for licensure? When we do our electives/selectives, do we have to make sure we set it up through a school or "participating" hospital?

On last question...Does this mean that all the rotations (3rd and 4th year) must be green for Texas? I haven't been able to find this for 4th year.

(are we not allowed to post new threads on the clinicals forum? I tried and couldn't)

Thanks

[gohornsgo]

I'm wondering specifically about Texas, but I'm sure this question will apply to other states as well.

In Texas Board Rule 162 allows a licensed Texas physician to supervise a medical student that is in one of the following three categories -


(1) is enrolled at a Texas medical school;

(2) is a student at a medical school located outside Texas and is enrolled as a visiting student at a Texas medical school; or

(3) will receive supervised medical education in a Texas hospital or teaching institution sponsoring or participating in a program of graduate medical education accredited by the Accrediting Council for Graduate Medical Education, the American Osteopathic Association, or the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners in the same subject as the medical or osteopathic medical education in which the hospital or teaching institution has an agreement with the applicant’s school.


So when we are doing rotations (3rd and 4th year), are we actually enrolled as a visiting student at a medical school? How would this work for licensure? When we do our electives/selectives, do we have to make sure we set it up through a school or "participating" hospital?

On last question...Does this mean that all the rotations (3rd and 4th year) must be green for Texas? I haven't been able to find this for 4th year.

(are we not allowed to post new threads on the clinicals forum? I tried and couldn't)

Thanks

pretty sure all clinicals must be green if you want a chance to practice in texas....

[PAPADOC2B]

With the increasing class sizes at SMU, what's the real wait time for 3 rd year core clinicals? Is it true that all rotations are green in NY?

Thanks

[Junito]

With the increasing class sizes at SMU, what's the real wait time for 3 rd year core clinicals?
Depends when you submit your passing Step 1 score. If you wait to the end of the Borg semester to take and pass the step and fax in your scores, chances are that most spots will be taken. Also note that Michigan Spots are the first to be filled (if there are only 30 students entering into clinicals for a semester and only 30 spots for Michigan...All will end up in Michigan (this is not a problem since there are always more students entering clinicals per semester to adequately fill in the Michigan spots quickly.

If you take the step early in the borg semester, expect to wait up to 90 days to start clinicals (you can't start clinicals until you are done with your borg semester).

Is it true that all rotations are green in NY?
No. See the start of this thread.

Thanks
.............................

[Junito]

Oh man, today I saw someone from another school get messed royally...They were matched and needed only peds to graduate. The school (won't mention which one, but it wasn't SMU) just decided to drop him and put someone else (big mix up). There were no peds spots available. The site was considering bumping a 3rd year student so that the 4th year student could graduate...Peds and OB/GYN are bottlenecks for many schools.

[singer]

Oh man, today I saw someone from another school get messed royally...They were matched and needed only peds to graduate. The school (won't mention which one, but it wasn't SMU) just decided to drop him and put someone else (big mix up). There were no peds spots available. The site was considering bumping a 3rd year student so that the 4th year student could graduate...Peds and OB/GYN are bottlenecks for many schools.

The problem happens because R**S seems to be increasing the class sizes including a new Honors program where students can miss many classes and accepting transfers from G*******A who already passed USMLE step 1. That would be ok if at the same time they increased the number of Clinical spots. Soon they will have rotations with 50 students and 2 residents. Real Hands On. If you read the R**S website it indicates that the student will take the 2ck and 2cs after finishing their 48 weeks of CORE rotations. Obviously this is not being followed when students have already matched and still haven't finisheda CORE rotation. Hopefully all of the 4th year students who where missing PEDS are now taking it. It is unfortunate that some 3rd year students were bumped. They had plans and the school ruined them.

R**S is a good school but they seem to be having growing pains.

[onelifetolive]

Hi. I was just wondering what the difference is between an elective and a selective. Thanks.

[Junito]

Fourth-Year Selective Clerkships
There are 23 approved Selective Clerkships:
Allergy and Immunology NephrologyAnesthesiologyNeurology CardiologyOncologyCritical CareOphthalmology DermatologyPathologyEndocrinologyPreventive Medicine Emergency MedicinePulmonary DiseaseFamily PracticeRadiology GastroenterologyRheumatologyGerontologyCommunity Health Care HematologyUrologyInfectious Disease
A Selective in Neurology is required.
Some hospitals require that surgical subspecialties be taken along with the surgical Core rotation. In such cases, students must take at least eight weeks of general surgery.
Students take Selectives after completing third-year rotations. Selectives include 16 weeks taken from subspecialties beyond Core rotation specialties. Each student receives a clinical handbook during their fifth semester of Basic Sciences listing all approved Selective specialties.
Selective Clerkships are offered at both Core hospital affiliates and non-Core hospital affiliates, which refer to them as "Visiting Senior Electives." A list of hospitals offering "Visiting Senior Electives" is provided to students in the clinical handbook.
Fourth-Year Elective Clerkships
Fourth-Year Electives are comprised of 14 weeks, chosen from the additional Cores, the Selectives List or additional subspecialties of interest. Again, these rotations are taken in four, six or eight-week appointments.


This is straight from the school's website.

[Junito]

You have to chose 16 weeks from the Selective list. From that list you MUST also select a Neuro rotation. Neurology elective = 4 weeks. 30 weeks for the 4th year - 16 weeks for selectives = 14 weeks of electives. So you will only be able to play around with 26 weeks (30 weeks minus the neurology elecive = 26 weeks). So let's say you are interested in doing a residency in three to four hospitals...You will only be allowed to do 6-8 weeks max at each location. This doesn't really leave much leg room especially if you are considering more than one field. Plan carefully.

Remember 16 weeks for selective (includes the Neurology rotation)

14 weeks for electives

[Barney Rebel]

I was just wondering about housing in Michigan and New York. Do the hospitals offer housing or is the student responsible for finding a place?

Thanks,

Barney

[Junito]

I was just wondering about housing in Michigan and New York. Do the hospitals offer housing or is the student responsible for finding a place?

Thanks,

Barney

They give you a list of places you can call. No housing provided at Wyckoff.

[stookie]

They give you a list of places you can call. No housing provided at Wyckoff.

Other hospitals in NY offer housing??

[green queen]

Just wanted to know if clinical rotations follow the SMU calender exactly or is there flexibility with regards to start dates? This question applies to both the US and the UK.

[Junito]

Just wanted to know if clinical rotations follow the SMU calender exactly or is there flexibility with regards to start dates? This question applies to both the US and the UK.

Follows the calendar to some extent.

[J10sstar]

As SMU students we are able to due all green clinical rotations in New York except for OB/Gyn. Does SMU have anything in the works to add any new hospitals to allow the students the ability to complete all green rotations in New York.

[AmericanIMG]

haven't heard anything and i am a 5th

[Junito]

There is at least one more site being added in Fall according to a reliable source. Will only have IM & Psych though. Hopefully an ACGME approved OB/GYN will be available soon in NYC.

[SMU-Info]

OBGYN is green in NY through the AOA.

[Jeep23Guy]

I know this was talked about before, but isn't AOA only green in some states?

[IMG2006]

Also make sure you have had a negative TB skin test in the last year. That actually delayed me by a week once. If you have a positive test, you'll need a CXR and rad report. If you have active TB... well.. nevermind;) .

[jelenap]

I am applying for Jan 2007 class and I had a question about the clinical rotations for both 3rd and 4th year. My understanding is that the student sets up his/her own clinical sites and SMU guides them through it...are we only considered as candidates for clinicals at hospitals that SMU has listed on their website? If there is a hospital in my hometown for example that is affiliated with a US med school and is a site for their rotations could I apply as an SMU student for a spot for my 3rd and 4th year rotations there even if that hospital is not listed on SMU website as affiliated hospital?
Thanks in advance!

[Junito]

I am applying for Jan 2007 class and I had a question about the clinical rotations for both 3rd and 4th year. My understanding is that the student sets up his/her own clinical sites and SMU guides them through it...are we only considered as candidates for clinicals at hospitals that SMU has listed on their website? If there is a hospital in my hometown for example that is affiliated with a US med school and is a site for their rotations could I apply as an SMU student for a spot for my 3rd and 4th year rotations there even if that hospital is not listed on SMU website as affiliated hospital?
Thanks in advance!

3rd year rotations you typically can't set up on your own (unless the site is willing to have a formal affilliation w/ SMU and take more SMU students). 4th year you set up on your own. The sites listed on the website are the SMU affiliated hospitals.

[neeL24]

When signing up for electives, is it better to do your electives in one place or to do it in many places?

[neeL24]

Also, it says some states do not recognize rotaions done at none teaching hospitals...does that include fourth year electives as well?

[Banker794]

Probably a question for the clinical dept to answer. When you do get the answer please post b/c it seems like very important info

[jubes]

Does anyone know if we can do clinical rotations and residency in Arizona state?:rolleyes:


thanks

[AmericanIMG]

i believe that AZ is ok, but you should contact their state licensing board.

[jubes]

are we approved for clinical and residency in arizona

[spyyder]

are we approved for clinical and residency in arizona
There are currently 3 students on the match list doing residency in Arizona. That would mean you should be able to do clinicals there, but it would be up to the Hospital's discretion (LCME school or not) whether they will want you. As for licensure it seems to be a case by case basis, with the following being special procedures for IMG's. From my understanding AZ is a go.

32-1423. Additional requirements for students graduating from an unapproved allopathic school of medicine In addition to the basic requirements for licensure prescribed in section 32-1422, any applicant who has graduated from an unapproved school of medicine shall meet each of the following requirements:
1. Be able to read, write, speak, understand and be understood in the English language.
2. Hold a standard certificate issued by the educational council for foreign medical graduates, complete a fifth pathway program as provided in section 32-1424, subsection A, or complete thirty-six months as a full-time assistant professor or in a higher position in an approved school of medicine.
3. Successfully complete an approved twenty-four month hospital internship, residency or clinical fellowship program, in addition to the twelve months required in section 32-1422, subsection A, paragraph 2, for a total of thirty-six months of training unless the applicant successfully completed a fifth pathway program as provided by section 32-1424 or has served as a full-time assistant professor or in a higher position in an approved school of medicine for a total of thirty-six months.

[AmericanIMG]

looks good! how about Nevada?

[spyyder]

There is current one SMU student listed for Internal Med residency at Univ of NV Medical. I would research this more thoroughly, but NV also seems case by case basis licensure. There is a lot of fine print and such for Nevada but I found this:

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-630.html

NRS 630.195 Applicant who is graduate of foreign medical school must furnish evidence of degree and certificate. In addition to the other requirements for licensure, an applicant for a license to practice medicine who is a graduate of a foreign medical school shall submit to the Board proof that he has received: 1. The degree of doctor of medicine or its equivalent, as determined by the Board; and
2. The standard certificate of the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates or a written statement from that Commission that he passed the examination given by it.
(Added to NRS by 1969, 214; A 1973, 509; 1975, 960; 1977, 1564; 1983, 304; 1985, 2230)

[joycemyster]

In the recent basic sciences dean's meeting. it was stated that if we wanted to do clinicals in NY we needed above a 200 on Step I. Is that true? Thanks

[Junito]

Why not ask the clinical dept on the official SMU forum? They will give you a definite answer...

http://smucayman.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=d7db0345e21ea1ca84910772c894aad6

[spyyder]

I am just wondering what are the licencing issues with arraging your own clinicals? I remember reading that some states want you to do clinicals at your own school sites. :)

[Junito]

I am just wondering what are the licencing issues with arraging your own clinicals? I remember reading that some states want you to do clinicals at your own school sites. :)

In order for you to set up your own rotations (cores) with a hospital, the site has to form an official affiliation with SMU. In other words, they must be willing to take more SMU students in the future. The days of doing rotations without an official affiliation are long gone.

[Junito]

In the recent basic sciences dean's meeting. it was stated that if we wanted to do clinicals in NY we needed above a 200 on Step I. Is that true? Thanks

I recall what they might have been refering to...Many people want to do rotations in NYC. There are limited spots there, so in order to increase your chances of getting an assignment there, you have to have a 200 or more for step 1. As I understand it, there is no automatic 200 cut off.

[microphage]

In order for you to set up your own rotations (cores) with a hospital, the site has to form an official affiliation with SMU. In other words, they must be willing to take more SMU students in the future. The days of doing rotations without an official affiliation are long gone.

vaguely familiar words from the halls of AUC...

[jelenap]

I am posting here because for some reason I cannot post on the Clinicals Forum.

I have a question about clinicals in Florida. Specifically, my question is regarding Jacksonville, FL. Would it be possible for a student to complete their clinicals in Jacksonville? There are various teaching hospitals here including Shands (associated with UF) and Mayo Clinic (associated with Mayo School of Medicine). Also, St. Vincent's Hospital, St. Luke's Hospital, and Baptist Hospital all have residency programs. I would like to complete all clinicals (core and electives) in Florida in order to be close to my family, but would LOVE to be able to do them in Jacksonville. Is this possible? How do the students get set up with clinical sites? Please help!
Thanks!

[Junito]

Only moderators are allowed to post new threads on the clinical subforum. Wanted to keep the forum nice and tidy for quick reference. I made a Q&A sticky for people to post questions (such as the one you posted) so that others may answer them.

To answer your question...No, SMU currently does not have any affiliations with the hospitals you listed. You could do your 4th year electives there (if the hospital accepts you). You can always try to set up your own core rotations, but the hospital will have to accept more SMU students in the future (in other words form an official affiliation with SMU). Good luck, hope this helps.

[spyyder]

Only moderators are allowed to post new threads on the clinical subforum. Wanted to keep the forum nice and tidy for quick reference. I made a Q&A sticky for people to post questions (such as the one you posted) so that others may answer them.

To answer your question...No, SMU currently does not have any affiliations with the hospitals you listed. You could do your 4th year electives there (if the hospital accepts you). You can always try to set up your own core rotations, but the hospital will have to accept more SMU students in the future (in other words form an official affiliation with SMU). Good luck, hope this helps.

could you explain what you mean by this, I am not sure I follow. Why would the hospital have to form a formal affiliation if you want to do cores? Thanks

[Junito]

could you explain what you mean by this, I am not sure I follow. Why would the hospital have to form a formal affiliation if you want to do cores? Thanks

Basically it is self explanatory...you can only do core rotations at SMU affiliated hospitals. You are not allowed to do a core rotation (remember a core rotation consists of the rotations you do for 3rd year: Ob/gyn, surg, psych, IM, FM, & peds) at a hospital or site that is not affiliated with SMU.

[spyyder]

Thats actually news to me. Is that a SMU rule or is that some licencing rule?

[Junito]

It's both a rule for SMU and one for licensing. Ross does the same thing. This was the rule for some time now.


Thats actually news to me. Is that a SMU rule or is that some licencing rule?

[sinchu77]

That doesn't mean it that it can't be done. It just means that if you have some sort of connection to those hospitals, approach them and explain the situation. Even if you don't know some one there, just call the associate program directors/ department heads and request it. My theory is that it never hurts to try. You never know what luck you might have.

Also, make sure you find out what residency programs these hospitals offer. For instance, some hospitals only offer IM and Surgery Residencies. So you would only want to do those rotations there. 4th year electives and Sub-I's are lot easier to set up. Its definetely worth trying.

[jelenap]

Thanks for the replies! I actually spoke to a person from SMU from the Clinicals dept and they suggested the same thing. To try to talk to someone at the hospital about getting a spot to do rotations. It would just be so easy to do it, since all but the Psychiatry rotations are ACGME approved at Shands Hospital in Jacksonville, FL . The Psychiatry is ACGME approved in Shands Hospital in Gainesville, FL (only 1 hr away from Jacksonville)

If I find anything out, I will update the forum!

[Junito]

Check out the new clinical site list on the SMU website:

http://www.stmatthews.edu/clinicalsites.html

[mdhope]

I noticed there is a new affiliation in NY with a FP rotation. Are there any other significant changes?

[hanginlimbo]

how do 4th year rotations affect your ability to be licensed?

to be licensed In the most populated states, are students allowed flexibility in their elective rotations?


I'm just asking because someone said some states want all rotations to be acgme..... including electives?

[Junito]

The only state that I am aware of that requires 4th year electives to be ACGME is Pa. If I'm not mistaken they require 76 weeks. This just means that if you are taking an elective in Neurology, you have to do it at a site that has a residency program that is recognized by the ACGME (or have residents and an attending from a program that is).

[spyyder]

i see some new clinical sites, thats great. Now only if they would get some more sites where you can do more than one rotation. and more PEDS!

[mdMDmd]

What is it and how do we get it?

Apparently some elctive sites would like proof that we have it?

Any ideas from fellow clinical students?

Thanks

[HeyMcfly]

http://www.valuemd.com/st-matthews-university-school-medicine/88031-clinical-paperwork.html

[drjohnwebb]

HIPAA, Health Insurance Portability and Accountablilty Act. It was a federal law that is supposed to protect a patient's information. There are many issues that HIPAA addressed, most of them were and are not really that effective.

Certification mostly involves attending a 8 hour class that teaches you the basics of patient privacy. Anyone who deals with patients is supposed to have training in HIPAA and have an update every year (1 hour).

You can contact the state medical board in whatever state you are in and see when they will have a class. You may be able to get training through a local hospital as well.

It is very simple and easy, you HAVE to know it for practice anyway, so just find somewhere to do it.

[mdMDmd]

sorry for all the confusion but i am trying to figure out how to get the hipaa certification that we all need on the second hipaa website listed by junito but cant seem to figure out how to do it
any ideas? thanks!

[zeus77]

Is it possible to do all 76 weeks of rotations back to back (given that they have spots for you) or is it required that you must take breaks between rotations? I heard that SMU only allows you to do a certain number of weeks per semester so that you cannot do 76 weeks back to back and graduate earlier.
If someone starts rotations in November and does the 76 wks strait can they make it for the 2008 match??? thanks.

[Junito]

I have all my cores back to back, with the exception of a 2 week vacation that I am currently enjoying. Plus I am already working on my elective rotations, so if that all goes well I will have done my clinical sciences within 80 weeks (which includes two 2 week vacations that I planned). Will you be able to make the match if you start in November? That depends if you can get all your rotations set up so that you finish all your rotations by mid april prior to starting residency. Contact the clinical dept for more accurate info. Good luck.

[sinchu77]

How did you guys prepare? Any advice? Especially for IM. Thanks

[mdMDmd]

hey junito,
how did you get your cores back to back in ny? i thought that was more the standard in atl because of the GMC consulting group. also, how far in advance did you clinical coordinator give you a schedule bc from what i've heard ppl generally just know one rotation ahead. thanks

[mdMDmd]

also,

anyone have any ideas regarding a good neuro rotation in ny

[Junito]

I knew my tentative schedule about a month or two prior to starting rotations. My tentative schedule listed all core rotations, and about a few weeks later I was sent a RAF for three rotations (IM @ Wyckoff, Psych @ SJEH, and FM @ Florida Hosp). Once you receive and submit the RAF it is official. Then a few months later I received a RAF for Peds & Surg @ Wyckoff.

I don't know how my situation may be compared to others, since I was the first person in my semester to submit a passing Step 1 score. Most spots were available when I was scheduled. I know of people who submitted passing step 1 scores later in the semester that had a hard time getting what they wanted, even if they had high step 1 scores.

[Junito]

also,

anyone have any ideas regarding a good neuro rotation in ny

If you are not bent on doing an ACGME approved Neuro rotation, try Wyckoff.

[Future MD | DM erutuF]

I knew my tentative schedule about a month or two prior to starting rotations. My tentative schedule listed all core rotations, and about a few weeks later I was sent a RAF for three rotations (IM @ Wyckoff, Psych @ SJEH, and FM @ Florida Hosp). Once you receive a RAF it is official. Then a few months later I received a RAF for Peds & Surg @ Wyckoff.

I don't know how my situation may be compared to others, since I was the first person in my semester to submit a passing Step 1 score. Most spots were available when I was scheduled. Generally people who submit passing step 1 scores later in the semester have a hard time getting what they want, even if they have high step 1 scores.

So how long does it typically take for step 1 scores to come in? Also, for 3rd year core rotations, do you submit your scores to the school or does the school obtain them and automatically send them to the sites which you want to do your rotations in?

Can you pick the sites you want for 3rd year rotations or does the school automatically pick green rotations at sites in the city you want?

Thanks

[AmericanIMG]

So how long does it typically take for step 1 scores to come in? Also, for 3rd year core rotations, do you submit your scores to the school or does the school obtain them and automatically send them to the sites which you want to do your rotations in?

Can you pick the sites you want for 3rd year rotations or does the school automatically pick green rotations at sites in the city you want?

Thanks

step1 scores take anywhere from 4-8 weeks to get back, depending on the time you take it (summer takes FOREVER)

[rickjames]

Can anyone tell me what states you can do ALL core rotations at the same hospital? I am interested in staying in one spot to keep from moving my family all over the US......Thanks!!

[ekq22]

hope this helps:
http://www.stmatthews.edu/art/ClinicalRotationSites.doc

[rickjames]

Ya......I have already read those, but I was reading in a previous post noted that they were updating all of the clinical information. Dropping some of the clinical sites to gain better clinical site where there are more core rotations offered. If ANYONE can shed some light on the subject??

[SMU-Info]

Ya......I have already read those, but I was reading in a previous post noted that they were updating all of the clinical information. Dropping some of the clinical sites to gain better clinical site where there are more core rotations offered. If ANYONE can shed some light on the subject??

The list online is current. If you want other information, contact padams@smucayman.com in the Clinical Development.

[Junito]

Can anyone tell me what states you can do ALL core rotations at the same hospital? I am interested in staying in one spot to keep from moving my family all over the US......Thanks!!

If you take a look at the clinical rotations list from the school you will note that NYC, Michigan, Kissimmee, and the UK are sites where one can do all cores in one location.

[rickjames]

Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it....

[Barney Rebel]

There are a few places where you can do all of your rotations, but they might not all be "green" book. I wouldn't worry too much about clinical rotations right now, as many of the contracts will change by the time you actually start rotations.

Best Regards,

Barney

[rickjames]

Ya i agree with you, but it never hurts to get an idea goin. I really wanna keep the fam in one place if at all possible. Thanks for your input...

[Barney Rebel]

Just curious. When are you starting Rick? I have a family too, so I understand your concerns.

Barney

[rickjames]

Maybe next fall? I sent u a pvt message on here, did u get it? If so please reply to the personal email i left in the message. If not i need to get in contact with you some how?

[Barney Rebel]

Rick,

I did not get it. Try my personal email - behebert2@yahoo.com

Best Regards,

Brent

[sasyed]

For those who are utilizing St. Matthews to do their rotations and internships in America, what were your experiences and what kind of advice would you give to a student who is considering to either transfer into SMU in either med 1 or to wait and attend at med 5...
Like, if you have requested a specific hospital or a specific city, do you usually get what you want?
Any advice will be greatly appreciated

[franco]

Housing in Miami for Rotations / www.miamivacations.com

[AmericanIMG]

For those who are utilizing St. Matthews to do their rotations and internships in America, what were your experiences and what kind of advice would you give to a student who is considering to either transfer into SMU in either med 1 or to wait and attend at med 5...
Like, if you have requested a specific hospital or a specific city, do you usually get what you want?
Any advice will be greatly appreciated

pass step1, then everything is good to go. don't pass step1 and you are in lots of trouble...possibly on saturday :)

[ahsirt80]

Ok, I have a question that is going to be kind of hard to articluate on here...my question is...when you are assigned to your core rotations, do they assign all of the cores to you at one time, or do they not inform you of where you are going for the next rotation until you are done with the previous rotation? For example, if you are assigned to Internal Medicine in a hospital in NY for your first rotation, will you know in advance if you are going to be able to do the rest there also? Once you are assigned to the first rotation in NY, can you sign a long term lease on an apt. with reassurance that you won't have to relocate to another city to do another rotation?

Sorry if this doesn't make sense.
Thanks in advance!

[Junito]

I can only tell you what I experienced:

I received my schedule about one or two weeks prior to starting. I already know I was going to be in NYC. I received a tentative schedule and a RAF (document you sign to make rotation assignments final) for three cores. Once registration time came along I registered for the cores that I filled out the Raf for. I only received a Raf for three rotations (i.e. IM, Psych & FP) . Now after I started rotations and almost completed Psych (registration was coming around) I received two more Rafs: Peds & Surg.

So to answer your question, no you don't normally get all rotations scheduled way in advance. You most probably get three scheduled first, then the other two or three next. Hope this helps.

[Junito]

Anyone else get the day off for Columbus day?

[MD999]

Anyone else get the day off for Columbus day?

Yeah go ahead and rub it in our Saginaw faces!!!

[rounin]

Do students at SMU have to travel from state-to-state for different rotations within the affliated hosptials during their 2nd and 3rd year of medical school like Ross & MUA students have to? Or are all rotations at one hospital (from the list on site)?

[AmericanIMG]

Do students at SMU have to travel from state-to-state for different rotations within the affliated hosptials during their 2nd and 3rd year of medical school like Ross & MUA students have to? Or are all rotations at one hospital (from the list on site)?

you can get them all in one area or move state to state depending on what u want to do.

[Junito]

You can do all cores at one spot at the following locations:

NYC (Wyckoff & St. John's Episcopal)
Saginaw, MI
Kissimmee, FL
Atlanta, GA
Chicago, IL

Hope this helps.

[zeus77]

does anyone know if you can do rotations in the UK without step 1 scores??? Also if you start your cores in the UK , can you do electives in the US? or do you have to finish in the UK. Can you do some cores there, some in the US? thanks in advance.

[Junito]

I believe you have (or will have to soon) a passing step 1 score now. You can do all cores in the UK and return to do your electives here.

[AmericanIMG]

I believe you have (or will have to soon) a passing step 1 score now. You can do all cores in the UK and return to do your electives here.

with UK you don't have to pass step1, but you have to pass it before graduation i believe. because the UK rotations are immediately one following another, there is no time to take a break to prep/study for step1.

[DA]

I believe you have (or will have to soon) a passing step 1 score now. You can do all cores in the UK and return to do your electives here.



Clinical Services



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 120

http://www.smucayman.com/forum/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://www.smucayman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2914#2914)Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: Rotations http://www.smucayman.com/forum/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://www.smucayman.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&p=2914) Any student going to the UK effective January 2007 must have a passing Step 1 score. If the student was assigned to the UK for cores prior to that date without a passing Step 1 score and began at SMU after January 2005, he/she must present a passing Step 1 score to do electives in the U.S. Hope this helps! Back to top (http://www.smucayman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1156#top) http://www.smucayman.com/forum/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_profile.gif (http://www.smucayman.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49) http://www.smucayman.com/forum/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_pm.gif (http://www.smucayman.com/forum/privmsg.php?mode=post&u=49) http://www.smucayman.com/forum/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_email.gif (kkosciusko@smucayman.com)

[Junito]

There are now three clinical coordinators...A new one was hired to lesson the load on the other two. Great news.

[nicky2900]

Are all of the sites in Florida green book and approved when it comes to being licensed?

[got milk?]

The clinical forum doesn't appear to be frequented much, so I decided to stick this in the main forum.

Which sites have you had a decent experience at for each of the 6 core rotations?
surgery
medicine
obgyn
peds
psych
family

Or what have your friends told you about these sites?
Which sites should be avoided?

Which sites would fit my ideal rotation needs, which are:
+Access to doc that doesn't mind showing you the ropes and answering dumb questions.
+plenty (but not an overwhelming number) of cases, with a handful of bizarre cases in between.
++extra time to prep for shelf exams and step2ck!!


I've heard a couple people say Harbor is decent for internal medicine. Is it hard for smu students to get placed there?
Wycoff is decent for family med?

I don't mind traveling, as long as I'm not wasting my tuition standing around in the hospital looking like a dumbutt.

[Junito]

There is a whole sub-forum dedicated to these discussions. As more people who frequent this forum enter clinical rotations, you will see more input. In the meantime try posting all clinically related posts in the clinical sub-forum. It just makes it easier for people to access in the future.

[stephew]

please post items in the appropriate forum for the topic. this is what keeps the site functional

[midnight]

Hey guys, does anyone know which clinical sites require a minimum step 1 score in order to rotate there? For example, I heard Saginaw (Michigan), Chicago (dunno which hospital?) and Harbor Hospital (maryland) require a 200 or above on step 1 to even be considered . Thanks.

[MD999]

Hey guys, does anyone know which clinical sites require a minimum step 1 score in order to rotate there? For example, I heard Saginaw (Michigan), Chicago (dunno which hospital?) and Harbor Hospital (maryland) require a 200 or above on step 1 to even be considered . Thanks.

I'm in Saginaw and Ive met SMU students with scores below 200 here.
I don't know about required scores for Chicago or Maryland hospitals.
I do know that for Cabrini (in New York) you need to have a pretty high Step 1 Score.

[got milk?]

Peds must be a bottleneck since we only have 2 green sites???

St. Barnabus Hospital and wykoff?

[Junito]

I have heard of people doing peds in Chicago. Not too sure about this one though.

[Jeep23Guy]

Are there really minimum scores to rotate through certain hospitals? You say that Cabrini requires a high step 1 score...do you know a number (or even an educated guess)?

[Junito]

Are there really minimum scores to rotate through certain hospitals? You say that Cabrini requires a high step 1 score...do you know a number (or even an educated guess)?

You need a score above 200 and preference is given to the person with the highest score (so I was told).

[mdhope]

If a student wants a certain place (for example: Chicago) for all their cores, can you tell the school that is what you want and be guaranteed to get that location? I realize this means you might have time off between rotations, but if you are willing to wait, is this a possibility?

I'm asking because a lot of students are married, have children or own a home in a location and don't want to move around.

Thanks!

[silverfish]

If a student wants a certain place (for example: Chicago) for all their cores, can you tell the school that is what you want and be guaranteed to get that location? I realize this means you might have time off between rotations, but if you are willing to wait, is this a possibility?

I'm asking because a lot of students are married, have children or own a home in a location and don't want to move around.

Thanks!


Yes, you can get any location you like and stay there. However two things factor in to staying in one place 1) how long do you want to wait in between rotations (it may be many weeks) 2) are you willing to accept some unapproved rotations

[Junito]

Let me just state that the clinical sites will most likely change in the near future. When I was in 5th semester the clinical listing change (we had Lincoln Hospital in NYC, and lost it). Wyckoff's OB/GYN became ACGME affiliated during my 3rd year, Florida Hospital's OB/GYN and Surgery became ACGME, etc. These things fluctuate. So be prepared to have multiple contingency plans.

My situation was difficult since I have a wife who wanted to stay in NYC (due to her job), I was also in a MPH that required me to attend classes twice a week in the evening. I also had signed a one year lease. Here are some possible scenarios I had planned out:

1- Going to the UK (that was my first option)

2- Staying in NYC (eventually OB/GYN opened up for me in NYC)

3- Go to Saginaw

4- Go to Florida (at the time Surg and OB/GYN were not ACGME)


I decided against the UK due to cost. My wife and I were going to go there and I was not certain that she could find a job there. I decided to stay in NYC due to my wife getting her job back that she had prior to us leaving to the Caribbean. If I would have known that Florida Hospital's Surg and OB/GYN were becoming ACGME, probably would have gone there. Would have then done IM, Peds, and Psych in NYC.

That is how I planned for clinicals. Now concerning having gaps between your cores, that should not be a problem if you don't plan on doing rotations outside of SMU clinical sites (with a few exceptions). Now almost all the sites that I applied to for electives that were not SMU affiliated required me to have done all my cores with Maimonides being the only exception. Bottom line: if you plan on doing electives at sites affiliated with the school then having to complete all your cores is a minor issue.

Each site has its advantages and disadvantages. The sites in NYC may not be the best, but I was able to get all my cores as ACGME and while in the US. The UK sites may be all ACGME equivalent, but the cost may be prohibitive for some. Saginaw may offer a better experience but not all cores are ACGME.

[WSUCougar]

Let me just state that the clinical sites will most likely change in the near future. When I was in 5th semester the clinical listing change (we had Lincoln Hospital in NYC, and lost it). Wyckoff's OB/GYN became ACGME affiliated during my 3rd year, Florida Hospital's OB/GYN and Surgery became ACGME, etc. These things fluctuate. So be prepared to have multiple contingency plans.

My situation was difficult since I have a wife who wanted to stay in NYC (due to her job), I was also in a MPH that required me to attend classes twice a week in the evening. I also had signed a one year lease. Here are some possible scenarios I had planned out:

1- Going to the UK (that was my first option)

2- Staying in NYC (eventually OB/GYN opened up for me in NYC)

3- Go to Saginaw

4- Go to Florida (at the time Surg and OB/GYN were not ACGME)


I decided against the UK due to cost. My wife and I were going to go there and I was not certain that she could find a job there. I decided to stay in NYC due to my wife getting her job back that she had prior to us leaving to the Caribbean. If I would have known that Florida Hospital's Surg and OB/GYN were becoming ACGME, probably would have gone there. Would have then done IM, Peds, and Psych in NYC.

That is how I planned for clinicals. Now concerning having gaps between your cores, that should not be a problem if you don't plan on doing rotations outside of SMU clinical sites (with a few exceptions). Now almost all the sites that I applied to for electives that were not SMU affiliated required me to have done all my cores with Maimonides being the only exception. Bottom line: if you plan on doing electives at sites affiliated with the school then having to complete all your cores is a minor issue.

Each site has its advantages and disadvantages. The sites in NYC may not be the best, but I was able to get all my cores as ACGME and while in the US. The UK sites may be all ACGME equivalent, but the cost may be prohibitive for some. Saginaw may offer a better experience but not all cores are ACGME.

If you were to go to the UK, would you have been able to stay the whole time there for clinicals, and would you have had any problem getting into residency (I know they're ACGME). Does it look better to do all ACGME at instate hospitals. I would love to spend some time in the UK, but not if its going to hurt me when residency time comes around.

[Junito]

I don't think it will hurt you in any way as long as you do your electives in the US. I heard the clinical experience gained in the UK many times exceeds that of what students in the USA will encounter.

[MedChe]

UK has good experiences from what friends have told me:confused:

[neeL24]

Hi, what are the hours like in clinical rotations?

[Jeep23Guy]

Depends on the rotation and the hours also differ day to day in certain rotations. My psych was 8-5 every day, but I've heard of people with hours like 9am-4pm and I've heard of hours like 5am-6pm and even 5am-11pm some days. That's not the norm, but be prepared.

[AmericanIMG]

my FP was very light (30hrs a week or so), my peds that i am in right now is ridiculous (60hrs a week)

[Godschosenone]

While waiting for clinical rotations to begin, is the time off
considered as a leave of absence or as a board semester
and are we supposed to pay for this?

I dont see how it is fair if we are going to have to pay.

[Junito]

The board semester was supposed to include time you wait for your clinical assignments. So that I understood. I must agree with you that the current system of waiting for rotation assignments is not the best and desperately needs improvement.

[Godschosenone]

Do we have to pay for the national board semester though?
$2500 is no joke

[got milk?]

we're paying $100 for it.
where can this document be found?

[AmericanIMG]

hahahhahaa what?! its on smuonline.com! SMU also gives u a CD w/ it!

[got milk?]

heh. i thought i saw it before. but i searched high and low on smuonline and couldn't find it.

so we're paying $100 for it EVERY semester? :shock:

[AmericanIMG]

heh. i thought i saw it before. but i searched high and low on smuonline and couldn't find it.

so we're paying $100 for it EVERY semester? :shock:

its there! yeesh. PM me your email and i will forward the word doc to u

[Junito]

It is a one time fee (at least in my case) and you should have received a CD when you had your clinical orientation. We received the CD and 3 of the 5 (or was it six?) files were corrupted. It basically looks like the Kaplan lectures but I found Kaplan to be a much easier read (better organized). Roll with the punches. Soon you'll see fees being added for electives (Wyckoff cost me about $860 for a four week rotation). Five more months to go...

[Godschosenone]

Wait
They are making us pay for the syllabus?
seriously?

[Junito]

Yup.....:mad:

[docshock]

It is a one time fee (at least in my case) and you should have received a CD when you had your clinical orientation. We received the CD and 3 of the 5 (or was it six?) files were corrupted. It basically looks like the Kaplan lectures but I found Kaplan to be a much easier read (better organized). Roll with the punches. Soon you'll see fees being added for electives (Wyckoff cost me about $960 for a four week rotation). Five more months to go...

Are you serious?? Do US med students have to pay for elective?

[Junito]

It depends on what the site charges the school. The school only pays $135 a week for electives. Wyckoff charges $350 a week, so you end up paying $115 a week on top of your regular tuition. Cores are fully covered by your tuition. I am doing two electives (8 weeks) that are not charging me a dime (more money for my pocket). Do US students have to pay more for electives, I don't think so. Sometimes a site may charge a fee to US students but it is minimal.

[summerwind]

It depends on what the site charges the school. The school only pays $135 a week for electives. Wyckoff charges $350 a week, so you end up paying $115 a week on top of your regular tuition. Cores are fully covered by your tuition. I am doing two electives (8 weeks) that are not charging me a dime (more money for my pocket). Do US students have to pay more for electives, I don't think so. Sometimes a site may charge a fee to US students but it is minimal.

Is this true of all Caribbean Medical schools that you may have to pay an additional fee for your electives?

[Junito]

Is this true of all Caribbean Medical schools that you may have to pay an additional fee for your electives?

Not all, but some do...MUA (I was told by some students there that they had to pay extra fees to rotate at Wyckoff) & SMU do. Ross, AUC, and SGU do not.

[got milk?]

hot damn. that would mean 24 weeks of electives would cost an extra $5000.

[Junito]

Once again that depends. Find places that do not charge (Long Island Jewish), or who don't charge as much as Wyckoff (Maimonides, St. Barnabas). This of course applies only to electives. I stuck with NYC, so my options were limited. We pay less than ROSS and AUC for rotations, but then again they don't pay extra fees for electives.

[Junito]

hot damn. that would mean 24 weeks of electives would cost an extra $5000.

Extra 24 weeks? I thought electives were 30 weeks?

[drjohnwebb]

IF you look... places like Duke, the NIH, Mayo, etc.. they will allow us to do elective... at around $1500 per 4 week rotation. That would be around 10K to do all your electives at places like that (each only allows you to do 2). However... I think it would look good on your trascripts/CV and you might get strong LORs at these places. Maybe good if you want a competetive field.

[drjohnwebb]

Are you serious?? Do US med students have to pay for elective?

Remember, these programs are set up to take the US students. They have to pay staff to take on extra loads (like us). However.. a lot of residency programs/hospitals now see there is a profit to be made off of foreign students.

IT is the way the real world works... you have to pay to play. You want the open or good rotation spots.. you might have to pay. Or.. you can wait until something open ups.. or travel some where else for a rotation you didn't want. What do these options end up costing you in the end?

[Junito]

IF you look... places like Duke, the NIH, Mayo, etc.. they will allow us to do elective... at around $1500 per 4 week rotation. That would be around 10K to do all your electives at places like that (each only allows you to do 2). However... I think it would look good on your trascripts/CV and you might get strong LORs at these places. Maybe good if you want a competetive field.


That is not always the case, at least if you do rotations at a site that is affiliated with your school, your tuition SHOULD cover the whole expense. So for core rotations our tuition covered the full cost, why not also for electives? Do the math and you'll see. For people who want to stay in New York, you can only do 12 weeks outside of your school's affilated hospitals, the other 18 weeks have to be done either out of state (which is expensive to move back and forth), or done at Wyckoff, SJEH, or St. Barnabas. Either way it will cost you. It is already costing me an arm and a leg to live in Boston and travel back and forth to NYC.

[drjohnwebb]

Hey man.. I agree with you.. If you do an affiliated rotation through your school, you shouldn't have to pay more. The school should have contracted the price and the students shouldn't have to pay..

I agree...

[summerwind]

Hey man.. I agree with you.. If you do an affiliated rotation through your school, you shouldn't have to pay more. The school should have contracted the price and the students shouldn't have to pay..

I agree...

To clarify...you shouldn't have to pay extra at affiliated rotations for cores or electives.

[Jeep23Guy]

To clarify...you shouldn't have to pay extra at affiliated rotations for cores or electives.

That's not exactly true. I had a rotation scheduled that was a 6 week FP core (4 weeks core, 2 weeks elective). The 2 elective weeks, I was going to have to pay $100+ per week.

This was an ACGME rotation that was set up by SMU. The rotation ended up falling through, but that's a different story.

[Junito]

But that is the point that is being made. You have to pay extra for the electives, which should not be the case. You pay different amounts for electives: If you were to do an elective let's say at an institution that charges $250 a week, the school will only pay $135 a week, leaving you with $115 a week to pay. So a SMU student doing electives at Wyckoff will end up paying regular tuition ($9600) + elective fees (215 x 16 weeks= 3440) for a total of $1340.

[AmericanIMG]

u are paying extra...but who cares. u are getting your MD. if u don't like how SMU does it go to St James or Nevis.

[Junito]

Who cares? I do and I'm sure others do too. I don't know man, but money don't grow on trees for me. The charges for electives can add an extra burden on students. I'm happy at SMU, but then again I call it like I see it, and stand up for what I believe is fair. I'm not going to respond to the transfer comment...

[got milk?]

u are paying extra...but who cares. u are getting your MD. if u don't like how SMU does it go to St James or Nevis.


after you get your MD and license........

you get shafted by insurance companies and pay rip off malpractice fees.

but who cares. u are a doctor.

med students and doctors take it up the butt. ;)

[awdc]

Is this true of all Caribbean Medical schools that you may have to pay an additional fee for your electives?

No. I just graduated (from Ross) and never paid a dime extra for electives. Ross will even pay for electives at non-affiliated institutions requiring fees.

I can't say for sure but I've never heard of students from SGU or AUC pay extra for electives either.

Like I just mentioned in another thread. The island portion of your curriculum isn't everything. People should also evaluate the quality of the clinical rotations/curriculum to see if it's okay with them.

[awdc]

IF you look... places like Duke, the NIH, Mayo, etc.. they will allow us to do elective... at around $1500 per 4 week rotation. That would be around 10K to do all your electives at places like that (each only allows you to do 2). However... I think it would look good on your trascripts/CV and you might get strong LORs at these places. Maybe good if you want a competetive field.

Just a word of advice. Many of these places will allow foreign medical students to do electives. However, scheduling them can sometimes be very difficult or near impossible. U.S. med school affiliates often times have just enough positions for their own students and priority goes to other U.S. students. My suggestion is to plan very early and have back-ups available.

[AmericanIMG]

u are looking too much into it juni...look at Ross for example. they pay much more then we do at SMU for clinicals...as does Xavier. u are complaining about relative nickels and dimes. weigh the good vs bad. good = you do a great elective. bad = you pay a bit more, WHICH IS COVERED BY YOUR LOAN. there are programs out there that dont even charge extra for tuition, just look into it.

as for the malpractice etc comment, u are WAY off base as to what i was talking about, and that was we are paying for our opportunity to be MDs. all of us, Juni, Teratos, Steph, me, we all weren't good enough to be docs and wouldn't be w/o the Carib. you are looking the gift horse in the mouth.

[Junito]

I have a general concern, and that is that I'm forking over a few grand (not nickels and dimes) to pay for electives that quite honestly should be covered by my tuition. I do not have rich parents and as I said earlier money doesn't grow on trees. Simple as that. I'm going to end up paying almost 3 extra grand (which could go to applying to residency for travel, etc). I don't think that is equitable. I'm not even going to get into the math...as it is even more upsetting.

Just because I am given a chance to become a doctor does not mean you can do as you please with me. That was the mentality I abhorred at Ross. Loans are to be repaid back with interest, it's not like I'm getting anything free. If the other schools pay more, they at least are not required to pay extra fees for electives. Don't get me wrong I am very happy at SMU. This issue for me is one of those annoying minor issues that happens to deal with a sticky issue...Money.

On another note I was informed that we are responsible to know what the fees are for elective rotations since the school automatically bills you $250 (minus $135) a week for a rotation if you don't specify the fee. I had to contact the sites and ask what the fee was, and in one case there was no associated fee but I was going to be charged. Be diligent in your education, ask questions and take nothing for granted as ignorance to certain facts may end up costing you more money that you should be paying...

[acetre]

Junito, What you have just described my friend is a little something known as extortion to the infinite power. The bigger question should be why are we paying full tuition just for someone to tell us whether our elective choice is approved or not. The bottom line is this if any student is fortunate enough to land a rotation at U.S. Medical University, I would like to think that the powers that be would not be so brainless as to reject that proposal. For the money being paid for the elective semesters, SMU should be finding our electives for us.

---acetre

[Junito]

Couldn't agree with you more...

[Godschosenone]

Regarding step 2.
Do we have to finish cores to take both CS and CK?
To match for 09, i think CS has to be done by mid summer
next year.
Does anyone know what the schools policy is regarding this?

[XXY]

Dr. Yates,
do you have the site for the
Florida board- to see what the requirements
for residency there are?
Thanks,
xxy

[Banker794]

Regarding step 2.
Do we have to finish cores to take both CS and CK?
To match for 09, i think CS has to be done by mid summer
next year.
Does anyone know what the schools policy is regarding this?

Finish taking both no later than the September before you plan on matching.

Good luck!

[MD777]

Hello Juni,

can you list all your rotations SITES where you have applied to and/or have done the rotations? ex: your FM was done in FL...then, what else?

you mentioned the cardio ped w/ Dr. Q in one of the notes. where is this site?

which rotation are you working now in Boston, MA?

thanks in advance.
Check out the new Wyckoff website:

frontpage_3 (http://www.bqhcny.org/)

So the takeover is official as of 12 am tonight!

[Junito]

Hello Juni,

can you list all your rotations SITES where you have applied to and/or have done the rotations? ex: your FM was done in FL...then, what else?

you mentioned the cardio ped w/ Dr. Q in one of the notes. where is this site?

which rotation are you working now in Boston, MA?

thanks in advance.

IM at Wyckoff

Psych at SJEH

FM at Florida Hospital

Peds at Wyckoff

Surgery at Wyckoff

OB/GYN at Wyckoff

Peds Cardio at Wyckoff

Anesthesia at Maimonides

Research in Boston...don't want to give this away, but let's just say the Hospital is located on The Hill. Today is my last day :( I enjoyed it here so much that I extended my stay an extra week (which basically meant I lost a week of vacation, no credit granted, but it was well worth it).

Pathology at Long Island Jewish

Neurology at Maimonides

Peds EM at St. Barnabas

EM in Ohio

My last rotation I have scheduled at Saginaw.



Places I applied to and was accepted:

NYU (Medical Tox)
UT Southwestern (Med Tox)
Maine Medical Center (Med Tox)
Banner Good Samaritan (Med Tox)
Carolinas Medical Center (Med Tox)

Lenox Hill (Pathology)

Rapid City Regional in SD, Family Medicine
Central Maine Medical Center (FM)

Maimonides (GI)

That's about it. I know I may have missed one or two. I had to cancel quite a few since some were only available when I was doing a core (Surg or OB/GYN). I also had to chose three programs to do in NYC outside our affiliation: I chose Maimo (twice) and LIJ.

[MD777]

Juni,

thanks again for the quick response...

it is quite impressive process, which will have given me and others some heads-up and/or foot print...

soon enough! you will become a physician...a successful person will be successful regardless where they are. it is a matter of TIME...i am glad that you are "2 steps" closer to reach your another mile stone....

another question: HOW did you manage ALL these diff. housing arrangements? it seems that there have been quite a few places that you have worked...how about flights? local transportations? it might sound simple to you, but i personally could not imagine how this could be done. when i used to work for corporations, we moved around w/ all the arrangements already lined for us by the travel depts of the corporations.

congratulations on your achievements!

[Junito]

I plan on only doing 4 rotations (16 weeks) outside of NYC. For Boston I got a great place that was listed on craigslist. Some sites offer housing or provide you with a list of available places close to the hospital. For Florida I stood with family. It's not that difficult to find housing now a days. Good luck.

Juni,

thanks again for the quick response...

it is quite impressive process, which will have given me and others some heads-up and/or foot print...

soon enough! you will become a physician...a successful person will be successful regardless where they are. it is a matter of TIME...i am glad that you are "2 steps" closer to reach your another mile stone....

another question: HOW did you manage ALL these diff. housing arrangements? it seems that there have been quite a few places that you have worked...how about flights? local transportations? it might sound simple to you, but i personally could not imagine how this could be done. when i used to work for corporations, we moved around w/ all the arrangements already lined for us by the travel depts of the corporations.

congratulations on your achievements!

[HeyMcfly]

Has anyone done the neuro elective with Dr. G at norwegian in chicago? The school wants to charge an extra 250/week for this for the elective fee and wanted to know if anyone else paid that for this guy or if you paid any elective fee? Thanks

[Junito]

You are responsible for finding out the associated fee otherwise the school automatically charges you $250 for the rotation. I contacted the hospital where I am doing Pathology and was informed that there was no associated fee so the school had to readjust my tuition fee.

[Oluchi]

1) On the list of of clinical sites on the SMU page, 5 out of 6 of the core rotations for GA are SMU approved...Does this mean its ACGME approved?

2) Anyone doing clinicals in Atlanta? Are the sites ACGME approved?

3) Also, for non-affiliated sites- I assume that's something we set up? Is the goal then, just to find a site thats ACGME?

4) Is the only affilliated ACGME approved peds core, at St Barnabus, Wycoff, and the UK sites? If we dont want any of these, can we set up something else at any ACGME hospital or center? How do you do this?

According to post my Juni in 2005 (?), two of the states I want to practice in require all green (ACGME approved) core rotations. Im just trying to make sure I can get these...

any answers/clarifications appreciated!

[J10sstar]

(1) SMU approved = you can graduate from SMU with an M.D., any site on the clinical list that says ACGME = ACGME (green) means that site has an approved ALLOPATHIC (M.D.) residency program in that speciality. Anything that is AOA/DO = Osteopathic (blue) meaning that site has an approved Osteopathic (D.O.) residency program (some states will accept these you just have to check with your state's medical board).

(2) ATL only has ONE ACGME (green) rotation and that is PSYCH (supposedly it's ~30 mins, if I remember correctly outside of ATL)

(3) Yes, non-affiliated sites you do the work and set up the rotations. This would be for your Elective rotations during 4th year (Radiology, Cardiology, ENT, etc.) not your CORES during 3rd year (FP, IM, PEDS, etc.)

Best bet is to do all GREENS just in case the state you want to practice changes its medical licensing laws. Well if you're hell bent on practicing in a state that accepts 1 or 2 AOA/DO (blue) rotations (i.e. NY, Maryland, etc.) then I wouldn't sweat getting all GREEN.

(4) As of right now yes! But SMU is trying to get more PEDS, but the thing is PEDS is the hardest GREEN rotation to get. Why? Hospitals often drop their PEDS residency program in order to save $$$$ (you'll see this is a theme with hospitals). Don't sweat PEDS, SMU will get you the GREEN PEDS if you needed.
UK --> ALL GREEN
Word has it that some people have been able to set up their own CORE rotations, but it's difficult and you have to know a BIG WIG at the facility you're trying to set up the CORE(S) at. It's all about $ and Politics. Basically, I'd say NO......but if you're a motivated person go for it.

FYI, I don't know what semester you are, but if you're thinking about coming to SMU or our a 1st semester you'll be fine. SMU is getting a lot of new sites and the clinical list doesn't include a couple of the newly added sites (Don't ask I'm not telling, but trust me there GOOD SITES).

[cubmd]

What happens if you do rotations with a doctor that has privileges at a hospital that offers a residency for the rotation that you are doing but you are not physically in that hospital, is that rotation considered ACGME? ….I’m asking this question because a lot of rotations in Atlanta, and even in Florida, the preceptor has privileges at a hospital with a residency program, but you won’t go to that hospital. You will only see pts in the doctor’s office or maybe you will go to another hospital that doesn’t have residency.

any ideas ?

[Junito]

I know the FM rotation in Kissimmee is at a Sports Medicine clinic that is listed on the Florida Hospital directory. I spoke to the office manager at the site and she informed me that residents sometimes rotate there. That office is affiliated with the hospital. Now concerning the other issues with a private office of a physician who has privileges at a hospital that has an ACGME accredited residency...that is a good question. Just to be on the safe side make sure to ask if residents have rotated there in the past. I encountered the same type of situation at Wyckoff during my peds rotation where I rotated at an outside clinic for a week. This is a gray area, so I would make sure residents have rotated there in the past.

[drJane23]

For electives and selectives, does SMU give us a list of hospitals where we can do our electives and selectives. Can electives and selectives been done in one state or in one hospital? or does it have to be done in different hospitals and or state????

Say in my 4th year, I would like to do all my electives in the University of Miami, is this possible????

[smu79]

Check the hospital that you want to do your electives, under visiting studetns, and it will tell you how many weeks you are allowed to stay. Some only allow 4 weeks, while others allow 8 or 12 weeks. In retrospect, you can do all electives in one state, perhaps, just in different hospital. The U has many close affiliate hospital...

[Junito]

I don't know about Florida. There was an email sent out concerning a new law that was passed in regards to electives. Maybe someone who is more familiar with the situation can post? I did not bother since I already have all my electives set up.

[UFTim]

Say in my 4th year, I would like to do all my electives in the University of Miami, is this possible????

I don't know if you'd get a spot at Jackson, but you could probably get electives at Baptist and Sinai. Sinai is pretty IMG friendly from what I hear.

[AUCMD2006]

I know the FM rotation in Kissimmee is at a Sports Medicine clinic that is listed on the Florida Hospital directory. I spoke to the office manager at the site and she informed me that residents sometimes rotate there. That office is affiliated with the hospital. Now concerning the other issues with a private office of a physician who has privileges at a hospital that has an ACGME accredited residency...that is a good question. Just to be on the safe side make sure to ask if residents have rotated there in the past. I encountered the same type of situation at Wyckoff during my peds rotation where I rotated at an outside clinic for a week. This is a gray area, so I would make sure residents have rotated there in the past.

if you are rotating with the private physician and it was not set up through the hospital then no it will not count. if however you set up the rotation through the medical education department of the hospital and are doing an outpatient rotation at the doctors office then yes it is ok because you are officially under the hospital and the hospital med ed is responsible for keeping a record of you there and your malpractice insurance and reporting grades.

for example:

1) i know someone at university of michigan and they have full faculty privilidges at the hospital. i set up time to rotate through their office and the med ed dept at the hospital did not ok or does not know about it. this will not count..even though i don't actually spend any time in the hospital and only at the docs clinic, even though i am right there with UM students...doesn;t matter it does not count as a rotation

2) i know someone at university of michigan, they agree to have me rotate through their office. i contact medical education and have the school send in proof of my malpractice insurance and confirm the rotation as an outpatient clinic rotation. this will count as an elective in all states and core in some. (some states will only count a rotation as a 'core' if your school has a formal affiliation agreement/contract with the hospital)

both scenarios i never spent any time in the actual hospital just the outpatient private office but one counts towards my degree in the eyes of the state and the other does not. hope that clears it up a bit

[DocBlinski]

UFTIM: Forget about Bapyist in Miami. Sinai on Miami Beach will allow rotations, need to contact med ed dept at the hospital. Also Larkin has rotations in anesthesia, pulmonary, intensive care, FP. Regardss Dr. B. How are things going?

[MD777]

to answer this question:

in addition to paying our regular tuition, do we still have the hospital the diff. of training fees? what is the current status? if any one can provide some recent update?

how about other training hospitals?

this can add up...15 wks could run you addt'l $4,500 per term and the regular tuition?

am i reading this wrong anywhere?

No you are responsible for paying $200 a week (at least that is what my Raf states). The school paid $135 a week, I pay the difference which is $200. So Maimonides charges $335 a week. Will try to find out how much St. Barnabas charges.

[Junito]

You don't have to pay extra for cores. For electives the school only pays $135 a week, what ever the difference you are responsible for. I have an elective where the hospital charges $250 a week. The school pays $135, and I am responsible for the $115 a week balance for four weeks= $460 for my 4 week rotation. Some sites charge more and you would have to pay more out of pocket: 350-135= 225 a week x 4 weeks= $900. Now if you do 16 weeks at this rate: 225 a week x 16 weeks= $3600 extra that you have to pay. The trick is to find sites that do not charge much or charge nothing at all. Long Island Jewish did not charge me a dime.

[MD777]

Thanks a lot for quick response...

what about the electives w/ SMU's contract? pardon me if i do not ask or say the terminology right...in other words, if electives are done in the wyckoff?

does this apply to all hospitals in US? i guess it will, since you have hopped around out of NYC.

so, your semester tuition will be the reg. tag w/ elective diff, which could easily run you over $15,000 or more in addition to the housing cost etc etc? i have homes already in NYC, so i do not have to be conerned about the housing cost and transport! in addition, i continue to bring in the income while i am in the school...money is NO ISSUE...but, time, health, knowledge, and happiness are more important for pp in our age group! i also set up my children's education exp. already for the colleges and grads. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

i tell you, Juni: i am SO GLAD that i did not come to a med school until NOW...i never had to pay any tuition for my undergrad and grad...this is some expense here in med school!!! NO JOKE!! it is like i am giving away a HONDA civic or accd every 3-4 months!

thanks again in advance...
You don't have to pay extra for cores. For electives the school only pays $135 a week, what ever the difference you are responsible for. I have an elective where the hospital charges $250 a week. The school pays $135, and I am responsible for the $115 a week balance for four weeks= $460 for my 4 week rotation. Some sites charge more and you would have to pay more out of pocket: 350-135= 225 a week x 4 weeks= $900. Now if you do 16 weeks at this rate: 225 a week x 4 weeks= $3600 extra that you have to pay. The trick is to find sites that do not charge much or charge nothing at all. Long Island Jewish did not charge me a dime.

[Junito]

Most hospitals charge a certain price for electives. It doesn't matter if the hospital is affiliated with SMU, i.e. Wyckoff, they still have a fee. I chose not to do all my rotations at Wyckoff so that I can get exposure at other hospitals. Wyckoff charges $350 a week. St. Barnabas $250 a week.

[MD777]

Abo