6 year program

[dr.fresh]

Im starting this thread for all those who are or are going to come out of high school soon and is interested in doing 6 year programs at, but not limited to, SGU.

-How difficult is it to get into SGU's undergraduate program (6yr program)?

[rokshana]

Im starting this thread for all those who are or are going to come out of high school soon and is interested in doing 6 year programs at, but not limited to, SGU.

-How difficult is it to get into SGU's undergraduate program (6yr program)?

the under grad program is just that- an undergrad program. While many of the undergrads go on to the med school, i don't think its a guarantee(please correct me if i'm wrong).

[John_USA]

It is a guarentee if you complete the entrance/final exam at the third year completion mark and achieve a 3.2GPA.

[jaywalk81]

the exam is basically very similar to the mcat from what i have heard.
you are better off doing undergrad in the US and then applying to US schools first.

[dr.fresh]

Rokshana, i dont mean this in any rude way, but what do you mean? Jaywalk, med schools such as hope medical institute and SGU favor highly upon those who go through their own premed programs, resulting in high probability into the 4 yr program after doing their 2 yr premed program. In addition, im not sure on this, but the exam is probably not as tough as the mcat. Not only, some european/caribbean schools, although not US medical schools, are very very respectable schools in the eyes of the US. So doing med school in a good caribbean/european school could be just as good as going to a US med school!

[Ishie1013]

I'm certainly hoping so...

But fair or not... from what I've read of SGU, it provides the equivalent education of your regular American medical school, so the quality of the education wouldn't differ much.

The perception on the other hand, may. Also depends on what state you're in. I've talked to a lot of IMGs and have noticed that those working, rotating, etc in states that are extremely tough to get into medical school, (California, New York) have an easier time with the Carib stigma than other states.

[RussianJoo]

why would you want to limit yourself to one school?? i mean do you really think so low of ourself that you need a sure thing for med school?? who knows maybe u'll do really well in undergrad, rock out the mcats and get into a US school... unless you know u're stupid and won't have any shot of getting into US schools then do this. but it's a waste of money I think. After goind to undergrad here you don't have a degree or anything. i don't think they even get a college diploma.

[Dr.X]

I personally support dr. fresh's decision to go directly into this program rather than wasting time and trying to get into a U.S. program. I don't like our system of applying to med. school in the U.S. I believe that it's a way that our system makes a profit out of us. Why the hell do we need to get a bachelor's when it's not really necessary to get an M.D.? Think about it. The whole process of applying to med. school is just a money-making machine. We go through 4 years of college, take a pricey MCAT an average of 2 times, take an expensive review course for the MCAT, not cheap primary and secondary applications, fly out to interviews, etc. Phew! Why go through all that? In the majority of other countries in the world, people go directly into med. school from high school and finish in 6 years, and I believe that thats how it should be in the U.S. By the time these guys finish their residencies, many of us are just finishing up medical school in the U.S. When I see people out there that go and get master's and Ph.Ds just to go to med. school, I say to myself, "Wow, what an incredible waste of time and money." Many of us are fooled into getting such degrees believing that it will lead us to med. school, while the system is just sucking money out of us.
And dr. fresh, ya there are drawbacks to being an IMG, but hey you know what? In the end you're and M.D. just like your collegues, nothing more and nothing less. In the medical field, no physician is judged based on where they went to med. school; rather, he/she is judged based on his actions as a physician. Every year, physicians from asia, india, europe, the middle east, etc. match into residencies in the U.S. Many of these guys end up becoming very successful as professors at U.S. med. schools, owners of their own clinics, etc. Then I ask myself, "If these guys can do it, then why can't I, as a U.S. citizen, do the same?"

[dr.fresh]

I agree with your thinking Dr.x, me being an indian and having a slight to moderate understanding of how other country educational systems work. But i have to also ask you, no disrespect but what is the deal with downsides of being an IMG? And also are these really that big of roadblocks that would sway a high school / college graduate to attend international/foreign med. schools?

[Ishie1013]

The whole process of applying to med. school is just a money-making machine. We go through 4 years of college, take a pricey MCAT an average of 2 times, take an expensive review course for the MCAT, not cheap primary and secondary applications, fly out to interviews, etc. Phew! Why go through all that?

Uh...

I'm grateful to SGU for taking me and all, but with grants, I am 6000 dollars in debt after four years of undergrad, largely due to Arnie skyrocketing tuition at the last minute. In the US, I've had far more access to loans and grants, and even in my loans, higher access to lower interest loans, thus have not had to rely on private loans *at all*.

MCAT, I believe, was close to 300$ and the fee could be waved if need be. The application process to medical school was around 1K, which is only the initial nonrefundable deposit I needed to go to SGU, which unlike SGU, for US medical schools, if need is demonstrated, application fees can be reduced or waved.

Applying to SGU cost a bit more than applying to one regular med school (though not with the initial AMCAS fee). If you applied to a number of foreign schools, it would likely cost just as much. Tuition and living expenses will run me easily twice what I would have paid to a public med school, and I don't have the same grants and loans available to me. Like I said... I'm 6K in debt right now, less than the cheapest new car. I will be a quarter million dollars in debt in four years... I could get a house for that. I'm also not sure, but I believe SGU is the only med school I applied to that requires an initial deposit of 1K, and then 4K (though that can come out of your loans) that is nonrefundable before you're even attending thus *before* I start medical school I will already have spent 5/6ths of the amount I owe for my entire undergrad.

Six year program may be what you guys want for your own reasons, but SGU is a private school in the moneymaking business. That is why they're there, and likely *more* guilty of the 'moneymaking machine' than the process of applying to US *public* medical schools.

Private schools do not go into business out of the joy of producing doctors... no matter where they are.

Like I said, pros and cons abound, but expense and hassle should be the *last* reason anyone considers going to SGU.

[eav]

After goind to undergrad here you don't have a degree or anything. i don't think they even get a college diploma.

People should really limit themselves to answer questions ONLY in areas they confidently know the answer:rolleyes:

If you apply to SGU straight out of High School, do the 3 years of premed, pass all the courses, get at least a 3.2 GPA in your third year, pass the PMSCE (not nearly as tough as the MCAT), at the end of your first year of MedSchool, you will also be awarded a B.Sc in Medical Sciences.

It is very much a personal choice.

[Dr.X]

Uh...

I'm grateful to SGU for taking me and all, but with grants, I am 6000 dollars in debt after four years of undergrad, largely due to Arnie skyrocketing tuition at the last minute. In the US, I've had far more access to loans and grants, and even in my loans, higher access to lower interest loans, thus have not had to rely on private loans *at all*.

MCAT, I believe, was close to 300$ and the fee could be waved if need be. The application process to medical school was around 1K, which is only the initial nonrefundable deposit I needed to go to SGU, which unlike SGU, for US medical schools, if need is demonstrated, application fees can be reduced or waved.

Applying to SGU cost a bit more than applying to one regular med school (though not with the initial AMCAS fee). If you applied to a number of foreign schools, it would likely cost just as much. Tuition and living expenses will run me easily twice what I would have paid to a public med school, and I don't have the same grants and loans available to me. Like I said... I'm 6K in debt right now, less than the cheapest new car. I will be a quarter million dollars in debt in four years... I could get a house for that. I'm also not sure, but I believe SGU is the only med school I applied to that requires an initial deposit of 1K, and then 4K (though that can come out of your loans) that is nonrefundable before you're even attending thus *before* I start medical school I will already have spent 5/6ths of the amount I owe for my entire undergrad.

Six year program may be what you guys want for your own reasons, but SGU is a private school in the moneymaking business. That is why they're there, and likely *more* guilty of the 'moneymaking machine' than the process of applying to US *public* medical schools.

Private schools do not go into business out of the joy of producing doctors... no matter where they are.

Like I said, pros and cons abound, but expense and hassle should be the *last* reason anyone considers going to SGU.

I'm not arguing over whether SGU is a for-profit business or not, because everyone knows it is. What I'm saying is that a lot money and time is wasted that doesn't have to be with our current process to get into medical school. I know IMGs from europe, india, and the middle-east who are surprised when I tell them I need to get a bachelor's first in order to get into medical school. So the process is more of a "time-wasting machine."
Yet, pre-meds. are an important financial asset to a university. Without them, their science departments will be at a loss. This is also the same for pharmacy and dentistry. When I was in undergrad., I didn't know a single person who majored in a biological science that didn't want to go into either medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, or optometry. Not one! Now, I'm sure there are people out there who want to be scientists but not nearly as many. Without premeds, universities are at a loss, because their science classes will shrink and professors will lose jobs and thus research will slow down.

[Dr.X]

I agree with your thinking Dr.x, me being an indian and having a slight to moderate understanding of how other country educational systems work. But i have to also ask you, no disrespect but what is the deal with downsides of being an IMG? And also are these really that big of roadblocks that would sway a high school / college graduate to attend international/foreign med. schools?

Here's some of the drawbacks to being and IMG. You will be at a disadvantage with the USMGs for competitive residencies such as surgery, radiology, dermatology, emergency med, etc. So if you have your mind set on primary care (family med, intenal med, peds, ob/gyn, psych.), you will not have much of a problem b/c the majority of IMGs end up in those areas. Not to say that you can't get those other competitive ones b/c just look at SGUs residen. list, its quite impressive. One of SGUs grads. did her residency in radiation oncology at Johns Hopkins and now is a prof. at Harvard (Steph.)
Another disadvantage is that some residencies don't consider IMGs at all. Also, you will have to obtain an ECMG certificate indicating that your clinical rotations are all "green book". You might have trouble getting a license in some states such as Texas, which considers IMGs on case-by-case.
And there's some other disadvantages (anyone care to add some more?), but the biggest one is the residency thing.

[rokshana]

sounds like the OP is a UK student, where the 6 year program is the norm. But as a US student, it is much much better to get the undergrad degree in the US and try to get into a US med school - there are advantages to being a US grad practicing in the US and disadvantages as an off shore student- in med school its difficult to get 4th year electives at some schools- they just don't take foreign students for clerkship- in the residency you would like is at a school that won't take foreign students, you don't get a chance to do an interview rotation there. For residency there are programs that just don't take FMG students into their residencies- yes there are competive residencies that are open to FMGs, but many are not, even some not so competitive residencies aren't open to FMGs. Licencing issues can come up as you go along and you don't necessarily know when they may come up - many states are starting to adopt the Cali list as their own, and while that doesn't necessarily affect SGU students, there may be states in 4, 5, years that become more difficult to practice in as an FMG. I can be a hassle. Not impossible, but if you don't HAVE to go through the hassle, then why put yourself through it?

I, personally had exhausted my opinions in the US- 2 application cycle with wait lists to show for it!! It was foreign MD, US DO, or nothing for me!! IMHO, I think anyone who wants to practice in the US and thinks they have a good chance at getting into a US school should try 1st in the US, then go off shore.

as for the straight out of HS- there is a big difference between someone you is straight out of HS and even one year of college, much less four!! Personally I think you should have to work in the health care field for a couple of years after college to see if its really what you want to do. And if you go to a cheap in-state under grad and med school it is CONSIDERALBLY cheaper than going to sgu fro 6 years!!!!

[dr.fresh]

I guess ill just have to dig deeper into the med. schools im gonna apply to and find all this info. i need. Im interested in cardiology,(not saying i made up my mind offcourse), and correct me if im wrong but it has to do with internal medicine, right? So does that mean surgery would'nt necessarily be out of the picture?

[Dr.X]

I guess ill just have to dig deeper into the med. schools im gonna apply to and find all this info. i need. Im interested in cardiology,(not saying i made up my mind offcourse), and correct me if im wrong but it has to do with internal medicine, right? So does that mean surgery would'nt necessarily be out of the picture?

Yah, cardiology is a fellowship you do after you are done with an internal medicine residency. Surgery has its own residency. About 10% of SGU grads match into surgery. Surgery is gonna be hard to get even as a U.S. grad. If you don't have good board scores, you aren't gonna match in surgery.

[dr.fresh]

This is a REALLY STUPID question that i have always been wonderin about. is a cardiologist and cardio-surgeon 2 different careers? or is it that if your a neuro of cardiologist, u are a surgeon?

[stephew]

Im starting this thread for all those who are or are going to come out of high school soon and is interested in doing 6 year programs at, but not limited to, SGU.

-How difficult is it to get into SGU's undergraduate program (6yr program)?
moving to premed forum. BTW bad idea- do premed in the us and try to go there. not doing college in the US and tryin for a us medschool is a decision you'll probably ALWAYS regret.

[stephew]

I personally support dr. fresh's decision to go directly into this program rather than wasting time and trying to get into a U.S. program. I don't like our system of applying to med. school in the U.S. I believe that it's a way that our system makes a profit out of us. Why the hell do we need to get a bachelor's when it's not really necessary to get an M.D.? Think about it. The whole process of applying to med. school is just a money-making machine. We go through 4 years of college, take a pricey MCAT an average of 2 times, take an expensive review course for the MCAT, not cheap primary and secondary applications, fly out to interviews, etc. Phew! Why go through all that? In the majority of other countries in the world, people go directly into med. school from high school and finish in 6 years, and I believe that thats how it should be in the U.S. By the time these guys finish their residencies, many of us are just finishing up medical school in the U.S. When I see people out there that go and get master's and Ph.Ds just to go to med. school, I say to myself, "Wow, what an incredible waste of time and money." Many of us are fooled into getting such degrees believing that it will lead us to med. school, while the system is just sucking money out of us.
And dr. fresh, ya there are drawbacks to being an IMG, but hey you know what? In the end you're and M.D. just like your collegues, nothing more and nothing less. In the medical field, no physician is judged based on where they went to med. school; rather, he/she is judged based on his actions as a physician. Every year, physicians from asia, india, europe, the middle east, etc. match into residencies in the U.S. Many of these guys end up becoming very successful as professors at U.S. med. schools, owners of their own clinics, etc. Then I ask myself, "If these guys can do it, then why can't I, as a U.S. citizen, do the same?"
rationalize it all you want. call it a bias of the US educational system etc. But you are a fool if you dont go to college and try for a uS degree. program directors will not wish to look at you because of your judgement alone and they'd be 100% right. The european system, if you want to argue it, is rife with kids who did medicine at 18 and are stuck in it at 23. But arguing the system aside, i can't stress enough. Do prem-IMG track and you are a fool who every program director is correct to shun. You'll prpbably get a job but the chances of a competitive one or competitive field is very slim. go to college, live life, do a 6 yr program in the us if you wish but GO IN THE US!