tennesee trying to bar all caribbean grads-must read

[fammed2002]

Hello,
I am writing to inform all students/grads at all med schools in the west indies that tennesee is writing in rules that may be implemented that will restrict all of us.
rule 08802-2-.04(3)(d)

(3) to be a board approved international medical school for purposes of this
rule the school shall meet the following curriculum criteria:
(d) acceptable medical education courses and activities must have been
centrally organized, integrated, and controlled into a continuous program
which was conducted, monitored and approved by the parents institution.

I think this basically means that if you do clinicals at a site different
from basic sciences you will not be approved for licensing. This is true for
most schools in the west indies and sets a dangerous precendent if other
states adopt this. If we do not take actions and contact local politicians
in tennessee to fight against this and this is adopted it could have serious
consequences. I urge each of you to look up the exact language and if
anyone is from tennessee or wants to practice there take some type of action(contact politicians, write to the board, consult an attorney) etc.
Imagine if other states take this stance. Regardless of which school
you go to this cound effect all of us.

fammed2002

[singer]

Hello,
I am writing to inform all students/grads at all med schools in the west indies that tennesee is writing in rules that may be implemented that will restrict all of us.
rule 08802-2-.04(3)(d)

(3) to be a board approved international medical school for purposes of this
rule the school shall meet the following curriculum criteria:
(d) acceptable medical education courses and activities must have been
centrally organized, integrated, and controlled into a continuous program
which was conducted, monitored and approved by the parents institution.

I think this basically means that if you do clinicals at a site different
from basic sciences you will not be approved for licensing. This is true for
most schools in the west indies and sets a dangerous precendent if other
states adopt this. If we do not take actions and contact local politicians
in tennessee to fight against this and this is adopted it could have serious
consequences. I urge each of you to look up the exact language and if
anyone is from tennessee or wants to practice there take some type of action(contact politicians, write to the board, consult an attorney) etc.
Imagine if other states take this stance. Regardless of which school
you go to this cound effect all of us.

fammed2002

First All Ross affiliated hospitals are approved by Ross, They all have a Doctor that is in charge of the rotation and monitors the students progress. What they mean by a rotation being conducted by the Medical School leaves things up for discussion. US Medical schools are affiliated with hospitals and not sure whether all their hospitals are owned and operated by the medical school itself. Anyone want to speak to the word "conducted " in the context of the sentence would be apprecieted.

[smashweasel]

Don't know much about TN, but I know texas public med schools send their students to military, county, state, and VA hospitals. None of them are owned, operated, or controlled by the schools. So, I think Ross's situation is similar in that it contracts with hospitals to provide supervision of students, just like most medical schools.

[FoxTrot]

Thats what letters of affiliation between the school and the hospital is for. (d) acceptable medical education courses and activities must have been
centrally organized, integrated, and controlled into a continuous program
which was conducted, monitored and approved by the parents institution.

I think this basically means that if you do clinicals at a site different
from basic sciences you will not be approved for licensing. This is true for
most schools in the west indies and sets a dangerous precendent if other
states adopt this. If we do not take actions and contact local politicians
in tennessee to fight against this and this is adopted it could have serious
consequences. I urge each of you to look up the exact language and if
anyone is from tennessee or wants to practice there take some type of action(contact politicians, write to the board, consult an attorney) etc.
Imagine if other states take this stance. Regardless of which school
you go to this cound effect all of us.

fammed2002

[fammed2002]

Hello,
Most of the schools in the West Indies have some type of affiliation with
the clinical teaching site in the usa. But I would urge people to investigate further and contact the board directly and see what they say about this rule
and clarify the exact meaning. This rule is pending to be added to the
tennesee board rules. The number for physician licensing at the board is
615-532-4384


fammed2002

[Junito]

Hopefully this is something that Carib grads will not have to worry about.

[Scott1981]

didnt we already go through this some months ago? didnt it get clarified that its not a problem in the other thread some months ago?

i guess in a few more months we will get a post about carib schools losing financial aid...:lol:.

[McGillGrad]

Yes, thank you.

I was about to post the same thing.

didnt we already go through this some months ago? didnt it get clarified that its not a problem in the other thread some months ago?

i guess in a few more months we will get a post about carib schools losing financial aid...:lol:.

[stephew]

I have no idea how youre reading "Barring offshore med school" from that paragraph. Frankly, a nice serious appraisal of offshore schools isnt a bad thing in itself.

[McGillGrad]

I have no idea how youre reading "Barring offshore med school" from that paragraph. Frankly, a nice serious appraisal of offshore schools isnt a bad thing in itself.

He is reading article 3(d) as stating that the school and the hospitals must be in the same physical location.

[ERNEST714]

I made an inquiry on behalf of some students and this is the reply I received 6 days ago.
Tennessee has adopted the listing provided by the California Medical Board. If your medical school is not on that list, anyone trying to obtain licensure in Tennessee, currently, will not receive a license to practice in Tennessee.

Marsha Arnold, Unit Manager
Board of Medical Examiners

I understand Texas is going the same route along with two other States.
Off shore schools will be forced to seek California recognition.

[fammed2002]

Hello,
I would ask you to contact the board for clarification. I have been finding
that there are state boards who are trying to close the door on grads from
the West Indies. I got a forward from a friend who is most likely withdrawing
his application for licensure in tennesee because of this rule. I am a grad of a school also in the west indies; licensed in two states and board certified but I am concerned when I find out about rules like this because it affects all
of us regardless of which school.

fammed2002

[brthrbrtt]

Well I beleive that Ross is on the California list, so wouldn't that mean that we are in the clear?

[miasma]

yup, looks like all schools on the cali OK list is OK for TN.

[Scott1981]

yup, looks like all schools on the cali OK list is OK for TN.

i think this was the conclusion reached some months ago. :bored:

[jim]

He is reading article 3(d) as stating that the school and the hospitals must be in the same physical location.

where does it say that? it says it must be centrally "controlled", nothing more. this would be a serious problem for numerous US med schools also if interpretted that way.

[McGillGrad]

where does it say that? it says it must be centrally "controlled", nothing more. this would be a serious problem for numerous US med schools also if interpretted that way.

I do not agree with the interpretation but that is what some people are saying it means to TN.

[jim]

sensibly the rule does not mean that a school can only train students at the exact location of the school, as most US schools would then be disallowed from grads practicing inTN. its just the usual " i am scared" crap we get here from chicken rumor mongers all the time.

[awelchnp]

The excert of the Tennessee rules and regulation change makes much more sense if you look at the whole set of rules and regulations. Here is the link for the website to see it in full text. http://tennessee.gov/sos/rules/0880/0880-02.pdf

It might still be worth a phone call to make sure that everything will work out. There is also another phone number listed on this website if the previously listed one does not work for some reason.

Just so you know,
Amy

[DrFaiyaz]

I think this post is just some lame rumor. Ross is accredited in Texas and California, the two hardest states for foreign schools to get accreditation in. Ross is a very reputable school, our training is equivalent to US medical schools and is superior to some. Besides who wants to go Tennessee anyway.

[stephew]

I think this post is just some lame rumor. Ross is accredited in Texas and California, the two hardest states for foreign schools to get accreditation in. Ross is a very reputable school, our training is equivalent to US medical schools and is superior to some. Besides who wants to go Tennessee anyway.your last sentence sucks all of the quality out of an otherwise useful post.

[jim]

sounds like somebody has never been to tennessee. one thing to always remember, when you start med school, you start a meandering path to an unknown destination. i am always amazed by people who are willing to go to a third world country for school, but would talk down on doing a residency in a particular state. be open minded. you may be surprised. I did residency in a state that i would have never even thought of going to before med school. I now have a full contract to work in the same state, after turning down contracts from the top 3 states in my pre-med mindset list. the pay turned out to be better here, the standard of living is better, and just living here is much better. by the way, my original top 3? Illinois, florida, california.

[AUCMD2006]

sounds like somebody has never been to tennessee. one thing to always remember, when you start med school, you start a meandering path to an unknown destination. i am always amazed by people who are willing to go to a third world country for school, but would talk down on doing a residency in a particular state. be open minded. you may be surprised. I did residency in a state that i would have never even thought of going to before med school. I now have a full contract to work in the same state, after turning down contracts from the top 3 states in my pre-med mindset list. the pay turned out to be better here, the standard of living is better, and just living here is much better. by the way, my original top 3? Illinois, florida, california.

your goals, perspective etc change in time. I was all about staying in illinois and maybe going to florida. things changed, oportunity opened and i ended up in the last place i thought i would ever live or wanna practice

point is don't assume that what you want now in terms of location or specialty will remain intact in the next 4 years. that is why you gotta give yourself as little limitations as possible.. if you can get into auc, ross, sgu, or saba that should be the end of your list followed with consideration to smu, mua-nevis and possibly spartan. after this the posibility of limitations now and more in the future demand that people reconsider and chose their path carefully...

[fammed2002]

hello,
The rule is tennesee probably does not affect ross, st george, auc and saba.
But the other schools besides those will be affected. You never know where
the best opportunity is and where life takes you. The are many grads
from Spartan in Tennessee who have been practicing for a long time. This
thing is not a rumor; call the board and see for yourself. It might be your
school is ok but tennessee is trying to make it impossible for the other
schools without any real reason.

regards,
fammed2002

[booksale]

who wants to practice in tennessee anyway :twisted::rolleyes:

:bored:

[Bad_Dobby]

who wants to practice in tennessee anyway Dobby thinks any place that dishonors the name of C. Darwin and does not teach evolution - disserves whats they sow and gets....yes he does. Dobby does not like the Creationist Quarterly. Dobby thinks the walking horses are cute and Dobby liked his visit to Nashville. Dobby's e-vile masters forced Dobby to work one year and one days in that state - yes they did. They made Dobby design e-vile weapons of mass stupidity - yes they did. So if they do not likes island Doctors - Dobby thinks they will be in a world of hurt - yes he does. Dobby thinks they is very backwards and wears funny colors to football games and they dances the UT.

[wizard17]

hello,
The rule is tennesee probably does not affect ross, st george, auc and saba.
But the other schools besides those will be affected. You never know where
the best opportunity is and where life takes you. The are many grads
from Spartan in Tennessee who have been practicing for a long time. This
thing is not a rumor; call the board and see for yourself. It might be your
school is ok but tennessee is trying to make it impossible for the other
schools without any real reason.

regards,
fammed2002

so if it goes forwards, and spartan grads are not allowed to be licensed there, what about existing doctors who have been practicing in TN for sometime who graduated from spartan??

[Cuando2]

I'd rather practice in Tennessee (never been there) compared to Miami. At least your patients will know how to speak english...I don't know a word of spanish and will never learn how to speak spanish and would probably have a much easier life/career living in TN. Flame all you want but I agree with Bush (which is a rare occasion) when he says, "This is America, and you ought to know english."

[booksale]

I'd rather practice in Tennessee (never been there) compared to Miami. At least your patients will know how to speak english...I don't know a word of spanish and will never learn how to speak spanish and would probably have a much easier life/career living in TN. Flame all you want but I agree with Bush (which is a rare occasion) when he says, "This is America, and you ought to know english."


i congree.

[smashweasel]

Cuando2,
I agree that we should make Engish the offical language for all business conducted in the USA. I live in Tx and 99.9% of all city/state signs and forms are printed in both English and Spanish. That not only means increased printing costs but also slows the processing times of forms that require more than one word answers.
That all said, I find it funny coming from someone who goes by the spanish word for when.

[fammed2002]

Hello,
There are Spartan grads in Tennesee; one was licensed just in 2003.
I am not sure what has changed since then. There are some people
who have testified before various state boards talking bad about the
education in the med schools in the West Indies. The reality is that
the people who have succeeded from those schools have passed
the same academic rigors, the same exams, the same residencies,
, the same board certification. Take foreign medical graduates
from various countries and see that not all of them are able to get into residencies in the usa for whatever reason. The process is reasonably
difficult to become a physician in the US.
Nationally there is a shortage of people going into primary care; and nurse practioners are trying to apply for the right to practice independently which would be a scary thing. The US students are seeking the more lucrative
specialty fields and osteopathic students are also seeking specialty fields
for residency.

regards,
fammed2002

[bobdole]

Your point? I think we've gotten this point covered pretty well; Mods, can we lock this thread?

[fammed2002]

Hello BobDole,
You might have gotten the point but why do you want to restrict
the thread from further discussion? Maybe other people are interested
in contributing to the discussion.

regards,
fammed2002

[nevisbutterfly]

Kansas has a crazy set of rules as well. I don't think they let Saba students do residency or get a permanet license. I called today and they told me MUA would not be approved unless they had been operating at least 15 years. I know SABA is on their medical board agenda for approval.

How is this? Saba is on the list for CA? I know they are taking FMG's from paki etc..... I just don't get it. So you can have a sorry medical school of unknown orgin from foreign country who has been in business for 15 years and take them as residents.

Does anybody know anything about Kansas. I don't really want to practice there, but, if I was offered a residency postion in a good program, it would be nice to have that option.

Any opinions?

[FoxTrot]

ross students can get a license in kansas. Just look at the rules and regulations and it will tell u everything on the kansas board of healing. Kansas has a crazy set of rules as well. I don't think they let Saba students do residency or get a permanet license. I called today and they told me MUA would not be approved unless they had been operating at least 15 years. I know SABA is on their medical board agenda for approval.

How is this? Saba is on the list for CA? I know they are taking FMG's from paki etc..... I just don't get it. So you can have a sorry medical school of unknown orgin from foreign country who has been in business for 15 years and take them as residents.

Does anybody know anything about Kansas. I don't really want to practice there, but, if I was offered a residency postion in a good program, it would be nice to have that option.

Any opinions?

[jim]

does MUA license grads to work in ...umm..ok, embarrassing, where? Nevis? whatever. a big death shot for any school is when none fo their grads can work where they are trained! grads from pakistan generally have also worked there.