can someone summarize what happend at st. chris?

[sukhtinder]

i know, i know, do a search, but..

a bit confused as to what happened over the last year, is this school shut down? i couldve swore we had 1 applicant for the match this last yr who interviewed at my residency program. thanks in advance..

[Bhoot]

school started by Dr. L and chartered by Senegal. Dr. L does not honor that agreement and pisses off Senegal, so after AZSkeptic sics the BBC on the GMC, they do a typical bureaucratic, knee jerk reaction and pull all "foreign medical schools" GMC certification in the UK, including SC. Partner of Dr. L decides/realizes/discovers (you choose) that the students are being screwed and approaches Senegal with plan to split from Dr. L. While partner and Senegal continue partnership with a school in Luton (St. Christopher's Iba Mar Diop, named after the Senegalese doctor who founded SC), Dr. L throws in his corp with the Drs. S, like minded partners in crime from MUA-Belize, who quickly realize he is an unskilled crook and piece of crap, so they mothball him, claim he no longer has any part in the school (though he still owns majority shares) and take over like they've done in their previous dealings in other island schools, including bringing in hired security to tromp around the building to prevent "vandalism" during finals. In the meantime, lawsuits push them to no longer use the "St. Christopher's" name. Some students go with SC-IMD, a lot of fools stay with MUA-Belize, some are screwed and just go home, and some transfer. SC-IMD is alive, but tiny and struggling, with a charter and the backing of a respected Senegalese MD with international acclaim. MUA-Belize/Luton branch is apparently doing better, but with a gaggle of crooks at the head. Many students are still screwed, and Dr. L took many semesters of advance payments of tuition, both in personal funds AND TERI loan funds, and is probably sitting in Naples, FL spending it right now. The whole soap opera is not over.

[diogenes]

Congratulations Bhoot! I think that reply should receive a special award not only for content but also for sheer nerve.
When I saw the original post I thought it would be a brave soul who dared to summarize the whole "soap" given the diverse opinions and the amount of flaming. You even managed to make it funny.

[highway]

school started by Dr. L and chartered by Senegal. Dr. L does not honor that agreement and pisses off Senegal, so after AZSkeptic sics the BBC on the GMC, they do a typical bureaucratic, knee jerk reaction and pull all "foreign medical schools" GMC certification in the UK, including SC. Partner of Dr. L decides/realizes/discovers (you choose) that the students are being screwed and approaches Senegal with plan to split from Dr. L. While partner and Senegal continue partnership with a school in Luton (St. Christopher's Iba Mar Diop, named after the Senegalese doctor who founded SC), Dr. L throws in his corp with the Drs. S, like minded partners in crime from MUA-Belize, who quickly realize he is an unskilled crook and piece of crap, so they mothball him, claim he no longer has any part in the school (though he still owns majority shares) and take over like they've done in their previous dealings in other island schools, including bringing in hired security to tromp around the building to prevent "vandalism" during finals. In the meantime, lawsuits push them to no longer use the "St. Christopher's" name. Some students go with SC-IMD, a lot of fools stay with MUA-Belize, some are screwed and just go home, and some transfer. SC-IMD is alive, but tiny and struggling, with a charter and the backing of a respected Senegalese MD with international acclaim. MUA-Belize/Luton branch is apparently doing better, but with a gaggle of crooks at the head. Many students are still screwed, and Dr. L took many semesters of advance payments of tuition, both in personal funds AND TERI loan funds, and is probably sitting in Naples, FL spending it right now. The whole soap opera is not over.
Nice post sums it up quite well. But I've got to ask if the charter existed all along then surely L is fine and in the clear? After all if they had a charter all along and this is no more than an internal dispute (Senegal removing the charter) then all the students should be ok. The only issue to be settled then would be the issue of the Belize take over and setting up the new independent Senegal school?

[TAFKA]

I've got to ask if the charter existed all along then surely L is fine and in the clear? After all if they had a charter all along and this is no more than an internal dispute (Senegal removing the charter) then all the students should be ok.The problem is that L has been criminally negligent in 2 respects:

1) despite that fact that he's the majority owner of the company that cleaned the classrooms, handled the employee payroll, rented the facilities, payed the utilities, and marketed the college, HE OWNED NO PART OF THE ACADEMIC INSTITUTION ITSELF, which he tried to run into the ground by dishonoring contracts with hospitals and other medical schools, by dishnoring the agreement with the parent university, and ultimately attempting to sell illegally to some other crooks...

2) he also has misrepresented the product he sells to the consumers, misappropriated student tuition, kept student tuition for which services have not been rendered, withheld student records, and impeded the process of students registering for licensure examinations and obtaining ECFMG certifications...

So while it is in fact an internal dispute, L acted as a rogue employee who caused damages to both a LEGITIMATE AND PROPERLY ACCREDITED medical college and to its students, and he will be held accountable.

[diogenes]

...... by dishnoring the agreement with the parent university,........ .
How did he dishonour the agreement? That's not a rhetorical or sarcastic question by the way: I'm genuinely interested to know.

[highway]

How did he dishonour the agreement? That's not a rhetorical or sarcastic question by the way: I'm genuinely interested to know.

Thats a fair question and the bit I don't get. If it was that much of an issue you would have thought that they would just refuse the charter to those responsible for running the college - the company resposible for it; and transferred it to another entity.

This line of reasoning makes no sense. The charter should have been verifiable before the whole issue broke.

[diogenes]

Thats a fair question and the bit I don't get. If it was that much of an issue you would have thought that they would just refuse the charter to those responsible for running the college - the company resposible for it; and transferred it to another entity.
This line of reasoning makes no sense. The charter should have been verifiable before the whole issue broke.
I'm glad someone else is puzzled! With the little information most of us have at the moment there is also a question mark hanging over the motives/honourability of the Senegalese side of the fiasco.

[islandhopper]

Congratulations Bhoot! I think that reply should receive a special award not only for content but also for sheer nerve.
When I saw the original post I thought it would be a brave soul who dared to summarize the whole "soap" given the diverse opinions and the amount of flaming. You even managed to make it funny.

Absolutely. This is what VMD is all about:D

[islandhopper]

school started by Dr. L and chartered by Senegal. Dr. L does not honor that agreement and pisses off Senegal, so after AZSkeptic sics the BBC on the GMC, they do a typical bureaucratic, knee jerk reaction and pull all "foreign medical schools" GMC certification in the UK, including SC. Partner of Dr. L decides/realizes/discovers (you choose) that the students are being screwed and approaches Senegal with plan to split from Dr. L. While partner and Senegal continue partnership with a school in Luton (St. Christopher's Iba Mar Diop, named after the Senegalese doctor who founded SC), Dr. L throws in his corp with the Drs. S, like minded partners in crime from MUA-Belize, who quickly realize he is an unskilled crook and piece of crap, so they mothball him, claim he no longer has any part in the school (though he still owns majority shares) and take over like they've done in their previous dealings in other island schools, including bringing in hired security to tromp around the building to prevent "vandalism" during finals. In the meantime, lawsuits push them to no longer use the "St. Christopher's" name. Some students go with SC-IMD, a lot of fools stay with MUA-Belize, some are screwed and just go home, and some transfer. SC-IMD is alive, but tiny and struggling, with a charter and the backing of a respected Senegalese MD with international acclaim. MUA-Belize/Luton branch is apparently doing better, but with a gaggle of crooks at the head. Many students are still screwed, and Dr. L took many semesters of advance payments of tuition, both in personal funds AND TERI loan funds, and is probably sitting in Naples, FL spending it right now. The whole soap opera is not over.

My sympathy goes out to all SC students, including some of my ex-colleagues from Saba...

[Genossa maximillian]

by saying, a lot of people got screwed in the process.

[AUCMD2006]

by saying, a lot of people got screwed in the process.

and yet i bet there are at least 20 people enrolling right now asking about housing and where to mail tuition...

this just shows how easy it is to get ecfmg certification.. basically ecfmg is just waiting to see who will sign the form nothing else. there is no doubt one of the two will get ecfmg certs back but that is such a minimal benchmark isn't it? are the students demanding more out of the new SC in terms of clarity, honesty, or are the new student-owners heding to th euse of the old tactics?

[Genossa maximillian]

That is the sad part of it.




and yet i bet there are at least 20 people enrolling right now asking about housing and where to mail tuition...

this just shows how easy it is to get ecfmg certification.. basically ecfmg is just waiting to see who will sign the form nothing else. there is no doubt one of the two will get ecfmg certs back but that is such a minimal benchmark isn't it? are the students demanding more out of the new SC in terms of clarity, honesty, or are the new student-owners heding to th euse of the old tactics?

[acgtagctacgt]

It this going to effect the tides over in the eastern US, where USMLE is concerned?

[acgtacgtacgt]

Not the real me.

It this going to effect the tides over in the eastern US, where USMLE is concerned?

[TAFKA]

How did he dishonour the agreement? That's not a rhetorical or sarcastic question by the way: I'm genuinely interested to know.

L was supposed to be reinvesting money into the programs, he was supposed to be paying university and hospital affiliations, he was supposed to be divulging company financial information to accrediting organizations (i.e. new york state, ncfmea?, and others) and many other things he was not doing... the academic institution basically contracted him to oversee day-to-day operations and he embezzled everything he could get his hands on and left a trail of bad debts and bad reputation...

Thats a fair question and the bit I don't get. If it was that much of an issue you would have thought that they would just refuse the charter to those responsible for running the college - the company resposible for it; and transferred it to another entity.

This line of reasoning makes no sense. The charter should have been verifiable before the whole issue broke.

this is exactly what they did and the charter was verifiable before the whole issue broke... senegal refused to verify that the luton subcampus was under its authority not because it wasn't, but because they were trying to choke off the supply of tuition money to get L out of power... it worked and now they have said, "actually we did and do recognize that the luton subcampus was and is under our authority."

[AUCMD2006]

L was supposed to be reinvesting money into the programs, he was supposed to be paying university and hospital affiliations, he was supposed to be divulging company financial information to accrediting organizations (i.e. new york state, ncfmea?, and others) and many other things he was not doing... the academic institution basically contracted him to oversee day-to-day operations and he embezzled everything he could get his hands on and left a trail of bad debts and bad reputation...



this is exactly what they did and the charter was verifiable before the whole issue broke... senegal refused to verify that the luton subcampus was under its authority not because it wasn't, but because they were trying to choke off the supply of tuition money to get L out of power... it worked and now they have said, "actually we did and do recognize that the luton subcampus was and is under our authority."


1)he was also supposed to be funding humanitarian misions that SC students swore up and down were there.
2)the "institution" contracted him? do you guys get in a room and think this stuff up? i mean its gotta be more than just one person coming up with this stuff! if medicince doesn't work out for you guys write some fiction stories in hollywood..just pretend its all true while writing it and i'm sure it will come out just as good.

he founded the institution, he started it in 2000, he bought the charter, the 'parent' institution didn't even exist until 2003 right? simplify it for the readers: the senegal people didn't get their share of the cash otherwise they could care less about what is going on in luton and L would have continued to rule.

if he was just an employe contracted by the "institution" why didn;t they just fire him? why hold accreditation? could it be because he was the founder of the school? you guys need to stop crapping with people and tell the truthas ugly as it is.... i will summaroze on the next post

[AUCMD2006]

the SC saga, this is a fictional story on many levels and is the stuff soaps are made of

chapter 1

It was the best of times, it was the worse of times. In Cambridge Engalnd a school opens circa 1998 known as St Christopher's School of Medicine. Two years later this goes bankrupt and a new entity emerges known as St Christopher's College of Medicine. The time between 2000 and 2003 are the formative years of our young school during which it is trying to build a rep for itself. Websites go up, students enroll, and a massive marketing blitz ensues touting it as the next best thing since sliced bread. Website pictures depict an ivy clad massive campus with the SC logo prominently displayed. Unfortunately the folks at Cambridge, where the images were actually from, did not take kindly to the use of their buildings to depict another school.

Ch 2

The formative years of the school are also enthralled in mystery because the time from 2000 to 2003 is the time of the wondering charter. To this day no one has been able to claim validity to a charter from that time period.
All this under the tutelage of a person whom calls himself Doctor, stated training as an ER physician, and someone who wows second semester medical students with their profound knowledge of the force...oops wrong story but about as beleiveable of some things here eh?

Now during this time, "students" all over the internet claimed and proclaimed affiliations with Cambridge, Guys and Kings, some even said they were considered Guy's and Kings students because they could use the library. So it went on with claims of private Brittish medical school, debates of being british medical studens, we are good to go in NJ, we are ok in 49, 48, 47, 46 states, the senator visited and laws will change, walls will crumble and so on.

Ch 3

Fast forward a bit, there is a move to Luton that is herraled in the same breath as the second coming because of the wonderness of the location and how much nicer luton is than cambridge. The school continues to run. There are claims of humanitarian aid, the purpose of the school to train Senegal doctors, yet there are not many Senegal students in Luton, ivy league clinical sites, and a woman who lives in a shoe...uhhh did it again, i am having a hard time separating reality from fiction in this story.

There is a parent university formed after the satellite campus. the story now complicates a bit because it now involves a relationship between a Islamic foundation in africa, a school named after a Catholic saint, and american citizens training in the UK using a senegal charter doing clinicals in the US.. though as they often point out, they have the option of doing them in Senegal. Civil instability in senegal make it difficult to confirm anything to this day; other than a webiste showing a building with a sign and two guards that is.

Ch 4

The debacle starts from a BBC news story during which documentation about the school could not be verified, questions arise about the owner and someone in the admin having been convicted of poaching students from another college. The school's physical owner and the owners of the charter have a fall out because someone isn't getting all, part, some of their "humanitarian" money. current cheerleaders have thier eyes unvoluntarily opened and are forced to see what they have been part to and still can see no wrong

there are backstories interlaced with all this that would explain the fervor of students defending the school to the end involving student parents, administrative help locating and contracting sites, special favors, privilidges given to said students in securing slots, preferential treatment, and this being some students absolute last resort at any sort of chance to study medicine that can not really be talked about.

in the middle of administration and those few students on admins short leash are the hundreds and hundreds of hard working dedicated students at SC who were caught up in the marketing by either admin or those students. these are the ones that are suffering now.

the outlook now is somewhat promising. senegal has finally seen they can make much more money directly running the show which means they can give some paper legitimacy to the school, some oversight, and so on. question still is wether gmc registration will ever return because of the new policy barring schools with significant training done in the UK and how this will impact the US come license time....

hopefully those who were house students will see the light

THE END

[azskeptic]

the SC saga, this is a fictional story on many levels and is the stuff soaps are made of

chapter 1

It was the best of times, it was the worse of times. In Cambridge Engalnd a school opens circa 1998 known as St Christopher's School of Medicine. Two years later this goes bankrupt and a new entity emerges known as St Christopher's College of Medicine. The time between 2000 and 2003 are the formative years of our young school during which it is trying to build a rep for itself. Websites go up, students enroll, and a massive marketing blitz ensues touting it as the next best thing since sliced bread. Website pictures depict an ivy clad massive campus with the SC logo prominently displayed. Unfortunately the folks at Cambridge, where the images were actually from, did not take kindly to the use of their buildings to depict another school.

Ch 2

The formative years of the school are also enthralled in mystery because the time from 2000 to 2003 is the time of the wondering charter. To this day no one has been able to claim validity to a charter from that time period.
All this under the tutelage of a person whom calls himself Doctor, stated training as an ER physician, and someone who wows second semester medical students with their profound knowledge of the force...oops wrong story but about as beleiveable of some things here eh?

Now during this time, "students" all over the internet claimed and proclaimed affiliations with Cambridge, Guys and Kings, some even said they were considered Guy's and Kings students because they could use the library. So it went on with claims of private Brittish medical school, debates of being british medical studens, we are good to go in NJ, we are ok in 49, 48, 47, 46 states, the senator visited and laws will change, walls will crumble and so on.

Ch 3

Fast forward a bit, there is a move to Luton that is herraled in the same breath as the second coming because of the wonderness of the location and how much nicer luton is than cambridge. The school continues to run. There are claims of humanitarian aid, the purpose of the school to train Senegal doctors, yet there are not many Senegal students in Luton, ivy league clinical sites, and a woman who lives in a shoe...uhhh did it again, i am having a hard time separating reality from fiction in this story.

There is a parent university formed after the satellite campus. the story now complicates a bit because it now involves a relationship between a Islamic foundation in africa, a school named after a Catholic saint, and american citizens training in the UK using a senegal charter doing clinicals in the US.. though as they often point out, they have the option of doing them in Senegal. Civil instability in senegal make it difficult to confirm anything to this day; other than a webiste showing a building with a sign and two guards that is.

Ch 4

The debacle starts from a BBC news story during which documentation about the school could not be verified, questions arise about the owner and someone in the admin having been convicted of poaching students from another college. The school's physical owner and the owners of the charter have a fall out because someone isn't getting all, part, some of their "humanitarian" money. current cheerleaders have thier eyes unvoluntarily opened and are forced to see what they have been part to and still can see no wrong

there are backstories interlaced with all this that would explain the fervor of students defending the school to the end involving student parents, administrative help locating and contracting sites, special favors, privilidges given to said students in securing slots, preferential treatment, and this being some students absolute last resort at any sort of chance to study medicine that can not really be talked about.

in the middle of administration and those few students on admins short leash are the hundreds and hundreds of hard working dedicated students at SC who were caught up in the marketing by either admin or those students. these are the ones that are suffering now.

the outlook now is somewhat promising. senegal has finally seen they can make much more money directly running the show which means they can give some paper legitimacy to the school, some oversight, and so on. question still is wether gmc registration will ever return because of the new policy barring schools with significant training done in the UK and how this will impact the US come license time....

hopefully those who were house students will see the light

THE END What has happened also is due to the Senegal's governments behavior during the SC days verifications will be looked at 10 times (my guess) before being accepted. Same thing happened with Nigerian banking documents....you have to confirm and reconfirm if a letter of credit,for example, is real from Nigeria. And yet, students keep lining up for the excitement. Amazing,just amazing...incidentally while I would like to take credit for getting the BBC involved, I can't They came to me as an information source,being referred by someone else they talked to first who is in the diploma mill busting game.

Also, not mentioned is the current transcript problem. Where does a SC student get their transcripts from? L has reportedly said that he owns the transcripts and SCIMD claims to have a backup of them but are they the real deal? The jury is still out.

[diogenes]

What has happened also is due to the Senegal's governments behavior during the SC days verifications will be looked at 10 times (my guess) before being accepted.......
I'm sure that's true. In that connection Tafka's comment that-
"the charter was verifiable before the whole issue broke... senegal refused to verify that the luton subcampus was under its authority not because it wasn't, but because they were trying to choke off the supply of tuition money to get L out of power... it worked and now they have said, "actually we did and do recognize that the luton subcampus was and is under our authority."
if true, is very worrying. If the Senegalese (govt. and/or IMD) were so naive, or negligent, or downright devious that they had to resort to this deceit to get rid of the good doctor and his band of merry men, that doesn't leave them looking like a responsible, trustworthy and confidence-inspiring bunch of people.

[Tritonesub]

I'm sure that's true. In that connection Tafka's comment that-

if true, is very worrying. If the Senegalese (govt. and/or IMD) were so naive, or negligent, or downright devious that they had to resort to this deceit to get rid of the good doctor and his band of merry men, that doesn't leave them looking like a responsible, trustworthy and confidence-inspiring bunch of people.

It was really the only way things could be done. Originally..unlike fairy tales posted by RRod, the college was started in 2000 and there were 4 owners. P.L. was put in charge of developing the English program in the U.K. ... unfortunately instead of spending time developing the college most of the time was spent trying to set up legal baracades in order to claim sole ownership of the U.K. campus (setting up Ltds in the U.K. and LLCs in the U.S. under his name). Because of this it made it very difficult for Senegal to assert any type of authority over him... the only way was to choke off his money supply.

[azskeptic]

It was really the only way things could be done. Originally..unlike fairy tales posted by RRod, the college was started in 2000 and there were 4 owners. P.L. was put in charge of developing the English program in the U.K. ... unfortunately instead of spending time developing the college most of the time was spent trying to set up legal baracades in order to claim sole ownership of the U.K. campus (setting up Ltds in the U.K. and LLCs in the U.S. under his name). Because of this it made it very difficult for Senegal to assert any type of authority over him... the only way was to choke off his money supply. Well, in 2 or 3 years of legal process we'll find out what is true about it but the issue may be moot by then.

[AUCMD2006]

It was really the only way things could be done. Originally..unlike fairy tales posted by RRod, the college was started in 2000 and there were 4 owners. P.L. was put in charge of developing the English program in the U.K. ... unfortunately instead of spending time developing the college most of the time was spent trying to set up legal baracades in order to claim sole ownership of the U.K. campus (setting up Ltds in the U.K. and LLCs in the U.S. under his name). Because of this it made it very difficult for Senegal to assert any type of authority over him... the only way was to choke off his money supply.

this makes sense. why all the ** and spinng tafka? triton's version sounds more plausible and closer to reality. L started the school, bought a charter, set up all sorts of companies to hide money and make it hard to track, senegal lost control and maybe choking off the money really was the only way to part ways. this is much more beleiveable than the version were senegal comes to the UK looking to set up a medical school for americans and L is kind enough to help them as their servant and employee....stop the **..

maybe you guys can elect triton to tell the story, he/she seems to have a grasp on how to tell things like they are without the sugar coated goodness and let things fall where they may

[dt]

It was really the only way things could be done. Originally..unlike fairy tales posted by RRod, the college was started in 2000 and there were 4 owners. P.L. was put in charge of developing the English program in the U.K. ... unfortunately instead of spending time developing the college most of the time was spent trying to set up legal baracades in order to claim sole ownership of the U.K. campus (setting up Ltds in the U.K. and LLCs in the U.S. under his name). Because of this it made it very difficult for Senegal to assert any type of authority over him... the only way was to choke off his money supply.


Nope, not true. 1998 was the original incarnation.

Do a search on valuemd and you'll find this discuss a couple of years ago.

[Tritonesub]

St. Christopher's SCHOOL of medicine was fully owned by P.L. and started in 1988 under a charter from Malawi (supposedly) it closed due to 'financial' reasons. Then in 2000 P.L. approached prospective partners in Senegal. The four of them went in as co-owners with plans of opening a school a 2nd medical school in senegal which would have a satelite campus in the U.K.

SCSM was a different school completely. P.L. tried to preserve as much of the name as possible to enable the old students to transfer to SCCM while making it seem they had not transferred.

Those who completed schooling from 1998-2000 under the supposed Malawian school are not recognized by any authority however, as a member of the board, P.L. was able to give them transfer credit.

I believe M.O. is one of these students, but he does not appear to be having any problems thus far.

[microphage]

the SC saga, this is a fictional story on many levels and is the stuff soaps are made of

chapter 1

It was the best of times, it was the worse of times. In Cambridge Engalnd a school opens circa 1998 known as St Christopher's School of Medicine. Two years later this goes bankrupt and a new entity emerges known as St Christopher's College of Medicine. The time between 2000 and 2003 are the formative years of our young school during which it is trying to build a rep for itself. Websites go up, students enroll, and a massive marketing blitz ensues touting it as the next best thing since sliced bread. Website pictures depict an ivy clad massive campus with the SC logo prominently displayed. Unfortunately the folks at Cambridge, where the images were actually from, did not take kindly to the use of their buildings to depict another school.

Ch 2

The formative years of the school are also enthralled in mystery because the time from 2000 to 2003 is the time of the wondering charter. To this day no one has been able to claim validity to a charter from that time period.
All this under the tutelage of a person whom calls himself Doctor, stated training as an ER physician, and someone who wows second semester medical students with their profound knowledge of the force...oops wrong story but about as beleiveable of some things here eh?

Now during this time, "students" all over the internet claimed and proclaimed affiliations with Cambridge, Guys and Kings, some even said they were considered Guy's and Kings students because they could use the library. So it went on with claims of private Brittish medical school, debates of being british medical studens, we are good to go in NJ, we are ok in 49, 48, 47, 46 states, the senator visited and laws will change, walls will crumble and so on.

Ch 3

Fast forward a bit, there is a move to Luton that is herraled in the same breath as the second coming because of the wonderness of the location and how much nicer luton is than cambridge. The school continues to run. There are claims of humanitarian aid, the purpose of the school to train Senegal doctors, yet there are not many Senegal students in Luton, ivy league clinical sites, and a woman who lives in a shoe...uhhh did it again, i am having a hard time separating reality from fiction in this story.

There is a parent university formed after the satellite campus. the story now complicates a bit because it now involves a relationship between a Islamic foundation in africa, a school named after a Catholic saint, and american citizens training in the UK using a senegal charter doing clinicals in the US.. though as they often point out, they have the option of doing them in Senegal. Civil instability in senegal make it difficult to confirm anything to this day; other than a webiste showing a building with a sign and two guards that is.

Ch 4

The debacle starts from a BBC news story during which documentation about the school could not be verified, questions arise about the owner and someone in the admin having been convicted of poaching students from another college. The school's physical owner and the owners of the charter have a fall out because someone isn't getting all, part, some of their "humanitarian" money. current cheerleaders have thier eyes unvoluntarily opened and are forced to see what they have been part to and still can see no wrong

there are backstories interlaced with all this that would explain the fervor of students defending the school to the end involving student parents, administrative help locating and contracting sites, special favors, privilidges given to said students in securing slots, preferential treatment, and this being some students absolute last resort at any sort of chance to study medicine that can not really be talked about.

in the middle of administration and those few students on admins short leash are the hundreds and hundreds of hard working dedicated students at SC who were caught up in the marketing by either admin or those students. these are the ones that are suffering now.

the outlook now is somewhat promising. senegal has finally seen they can make much more money directly running the show which means they can give some paper legitimacy to the school, some oversight, and so on. question still is wether gmc registration will ever return because of the new policy barring schools with significant training done in the UK and how this will impact the US come license time....

hopefully those who were house students will see the light

THE END

I'm pretty sure I never read this in any of the Step 2 books....

[teratos]

I'm pretty sure I never read this in any of the Step 2 books....

Apparently, Rrod isn't reading many books these days, either. G

[AUCMD2006]

Apparently, Rrod isn't reading many books these days, either. G

the less i read the better my evals get... figure that one out..

i have a six week block scheduled off to study for step 2 so i am using that as my excuse not to read more than required...besides i am in ob right now and the hours are not conducive to my learning style...hehe

[TAFKA]

this makes sense. why all the ** and spinng tafka? triton's version sounds more plausible and closer to reality. L started the school, bought a charter, set up all sorts of companies to hide money and make it hard to track, senegal lost control and maybe choking off the money really was the only way to part ways. this is much more beleiveable than the version were senegal comes to the UK looking to set up a medical school for americans and L is kind enough to help them as their servant and employee....stop the **..rrod - I never suggested this idiocy... you are making incorrect assumptions. Just because PL was contracted by Senegal to run the daily operations of the UK campus does not mean that PL didn't approach them with the idea... If I approach McDonald's and say I want to make McDonald's burgers and sell them in Zimbabwe through my own private food selling company, does that make me the owner of McDonald's? No. What it makes me is a franchise or a distributer. Now what happens if I stop giving McDonald's its kickback? They say stop selling those McDonald's burgers. What if I don't stop? They publically announce that those are not McDonald's burgers. PL was a DISTRIBUTOR... he owned a company that DISTRIBUTED UEIN's/EM-SCIMD's/SCIMD-COM's product (medical education) in the UK. But then he stopped sending the kickback and he mistreated his employees and he offered poor customer service and he committed a number of other sins. So UEIN told him to get lost. PL refused and so they choked off his supply of money to muscle him out. How many times has somebody on this site posted about how painfully slowly the wheels of justice turn? Well the wheels of choking off PL's supply of money have turned pretty quickly and I, for one, can't fault Senegal for doing what they did. PL NEVER OWNED A SCHOOL OR A CHARTER; what he owned was a private company that he used to embezzle from his business partners and, consequently, is no longer contracted to distribute medical education for UEIN/EM-SCIMD/SCIMD-COM. And a Ferrari.

[Genossa maximillian]

And I do remember this fact because it was about the same time St. Luke popped up in Liberia and I wondered if they were connected for which phone calls were made and Dr. D from St. Luke said he was a graduate from Spartan and DR. L (back then more accesible) mentioned being from Grace.

Whatever DR. L was doing behind the scenes, was it his school , was it a franchise, was it his money or not, I am reading different stories, some seem more plausible than others, which leads me to think there is still much speculation going on on what was going on behind the scenes.








St. Christopher's SCHOOL of medicine was fully owned by P.L. and started in 1988 under a charter from Malawi (supposedly) it closed due to 'financial' reasons. Then in 2000 P.L. approached prospective partners in Senegal. The four of them went in as co-owners with plans of opening a school a 2nd medical school in senegal which would have a satelite campus in the U.K.

SCSM was a different school completely. P.L. tried to preserve as much of the name as possible to enable the old students to transfer to SCCM while making it seem they had not transferred.

Those who completed schooling from 1998-2000 under the supposed Malawian school are not recognized by any authority however, as a member of the board, P.L. was able to give them transfer credit.

I believe M.O. is one of these students, but he does not appear to be having any problems thus far.

[gazpacho]

When did S****lands pull out? Was there a posting about that? What happened to MUA-UK??? So, NOTHING is happening in UK except Iba Mar Diop or whatever?

[empathy]

This doesn't come together right when you factor in the fact that for a long time no one could even prove a St. Chris Senegal Campus existed. A person once stood before the New Jersey board and reported that it was simply a back room in a doctor's office. Before you hire someone to run a branch campus shouldn't you build a main campus? What happened to the other 3 players? All 4 played the game the same way so hopefully.....

Also, you say the college started in 2000, but Senegal did not give it permission to begin operations 'til 2003. So why would they hire someone to develop something in 2000? You guys needed Senegal not the other way around.

The most likely scenerio is that the admin opened their school and approached Senegal in 2003. Perhaps the investors in Senegal are victims in the fact that they believed they were buying into something that was already established and entering into an agreement with trained medical professionals who had practiced medicine, held licenses and were respected and well known in the US. Maybe they were niave and failed to do background checks. Maybe they thought they were entering into an affiliation with a US Run Medical School?

It's a sad fact but now days you have to check people out...you can't take anything on face value anymore. A lesson these students unfortunately had to learn the hard way. Will they get their money back? Nope, not as long as the spinners cont. to have their way with them.

One last question why had no one ever heard of St. Christopher's College of Medicine referred to as St. Chris Iba Mar Diop prior to the BBC Five Live Report? Shouldn't a med school go by the name on its charter?

It was really the only way things could be done. Originally..unlike fairy tales posted by RRod, the college was started in 2000 and there were 4 owners. P.L. was put in charge of developing the English program in the U.K. ... unfortunately instead of spending time developing the college most of the time was spent trying to set up legal baracades in order to claim sole ownership of the U.K. campus (setting up Ltds in the U.K. and LLCs in the U.S. under his name). Because of this it made it very difficult for Senegal to assert any type of authority over him... the only way was to choke off his money supply.

[jpryor]

Empathy, for someone who keeps hounding people to speak the truth, you sure do throw out a lot of misinformation. There isn't one iota of truth in the drivel you posted above. You frequently adjust you arguments on input from other posters on this forum and you accept their posts as gospel when they are no more knowledgeable than you.

It's been a constant theme of yours to harp on the origin and relationship between the parent school and the UK subcampus, so one would think that if it was so important to you that you'd get your facts straight. While you insist on truth so that anybody can contact an authority to verify information, you ignore what these same authorities are reporting. I find that odd, yet it underscores that your objective is not truth, but bashing.

[CorporateRaider]

Sometimes it’s just plain “sad” to read the digital ink excrement that is spewed around the internet, irresponsibly, by mono-neuronal lamebrains.
Those of us that know the law, study it, and respect its contents, and those of us that are very familiar with Higher Education, know, that SCHOOLS do not own transcripts, period.

Schools:

HOLD Transcripts
CERTIFY Transcripts
ISSUE Transcripts
MAIL TranscriptsSCHOOLS DO NOT OWN TRANSCRIPTS.


The student owns his or her transcripts, which are an un-transferable document.

I am not personally aware that PL has made such an absurd comment, but if he did, he made such a comment from a total position of ignorance of the regulations of Higher Education, and by now should know better.

What has happened also is due to the Senegal's governments behavior during the SC days verifications will be looked at 10 times (my guess) before being accepted. Same thing happened with Nigerian banking documents....you have to confirm and reconfirm if a letter of credit,for example, is real from Nigeria. And yet, students keep lining up for the excitement. Amazing,just amazing...incidentally while I would like to take credit for getting the BBC involved, I can't They came to me as an information source,being referred by someone else they talked to first who is in the diploma mill busting game.

Also, not mentioned is the current transcript problem. Where does a SC student get their transcripts from? L has reportedly said that he owns the transcripts and SCIMD claims to have a backup of them but are they the real deal? The jury is still out.

[gambino]

As a neutral observer who has taken lots of good advice from people on here and who had unfortunately attended this school with a lack of information there are 3 things I would ask of you:

1. Please realize that not very many students who attended this school were made aware of these issues of licensure, PL's fraudulent dealings or past, nor of some of the more shadier practices that were going on here behind the scenes i.e. investing student loan money, not being open or honest about deficiencies in the program, etc.. PL would reinforce these lies from the moment of orientation down thru exams, all the way thru rotations buffing up the school and anticipating the reason for your question and spinning his lie to make u hear what u wanted to hear. With very little other information available at the time it became an easy sell.
(I myself had done as much research as possible back 6-7 years ago long BEFORE there was even a viable ValueMD, the old network54 forums were a mixture of rumors, innuendos, and recruiting by other schools and were useless as a source of information).

2. PL and his mistress TP DID threaten students when the ECMFG matter first broke that they would withhold any students transcripts, "as they were school property" this is especially true when the subject of legal action against them was first discussed by students last fall. There were MANY that were also in total denial of anything wrong and were trying to minimize or even downplay the seriousness of these problems thinking in their hallucogenic state that they were "ok" since they graduated or were about to start residency (licensure? school reputation? future malpractice issues?). I know there are many that are going to jump on my back, but please do not paint all students at this school with the broad brush stroke of the school's cheerleaders, many did NOT agree and did raise issues, but keep in mind that FEAR was used to stifle any and all dissent.

3. This was also reinforced by the fact that any teachers/professors in the UK or administrators in the school office in NJ were threatened and then fired under dubious reasons by PL and his male butler AB. Many of these profs and administrators who felt sympathy for the students or tried to improve the situation of the program were put on notice that no threat to the status quo would be tolerated (one was even threatened with deportation). If PL could do this with impunity to faculty and staff, what makes u think he would respect you as a student?

If this forum is meant for the better welfare and education of current and interested students, please keep the focus on that as I strongly feel that education on these issues was/is the best weapon against getting conned and lied to in the future by those with little or no interest in helping students on this site at any school pursue their dream.

regards,
g

Sometimes it’s just plain “sad” to read the digital ink excrement that is spewed around the internet, irresponsibly, by mono-neuronal lamebrains.
Those of us that know the law, study it, and respect its contents, and those of us that are very familiar with Higher Education, know, that SCHOOLS do not own transcripts, period.

Schools:

HOLD Transcripts
CERTIFY Transcripts
ISSUE Transcripts
MAIL TranscriptsSCHOOLS DO NOT OWN TRANSCRIPTS.


The student owns his or her transcripts, which are an un-transferable document.

I am not personally aware that PL has made such an absurd comment, but if he did, he made such a comment from a total position of ignorance of the regulations of Higher Education, and by now should know better.

[CorporateRaider]

Gambino:

You present yourself as a neutral observer, but you are very vocal. Threats are just that until legal action is taken. Had a student of St Chris been a client of mine, I might have sued PL + SCCM + ADMIN + Cestui que use, for at least the following:


Illegal retention of documents
Co-ersionStudents may find attornies willing to take the case on Champerty provisions.

[empathy]

JP you should pick the points you choose to bash me on more carefully. This one has published newspaper accounts.

Empathy, for someone who keeps hounding people to speak the truth, you sure do throw out a lot of misinformation. There isn't one iota of truth in the drivel you posted above. You frequently adjust you arguments on input from other posters on this forum and you accept their posts as gospel when they are no more knowledgeable than you.

It's been a constant theme of yours to harp on the origin and relationship between the parent school and the UK subcampus, so one would think that if it was so important to you that you'd get your facts straight. While you insist on truth so that anybody can contact an authority to verify information, you ignore what these same authorities are reporting. I find that odd, yet it underscores that your objective is not truth, but bashing.

[TAFKA]

Can a school legally withhold transcripts from students with outstanding financial obligations if they do not own them?
Sometimes it’s just plain “sad” to read the digital ink excrement that is spewed around the internet, irresponsibly, by mono-neuronal lamebrains.
Those of us that know the law, study it, and respect its contents, and those of us that are very familiar with Higher Education, know, that SCHOOLS do not own transcripts, period.

Schools:
HOLD Transcripts
CERTIFY Transcripts
ISSUE Transcripts
MAIL TranscriptsSCHOOLS DO NOT OWN TRANSCRIPTS.


The student owns his or her transcripts, which are an un-transferable document.

I am not personally aware that PL has made such an absurd comment, but if he did, he made such a comment from a total position of ignorance of the regulations of Higher Education, and by now should know better.

[milos]

JP you should pick the points you choose to bash me on more carefully. This one has published newspaper accounts.

Edited because user can't play nice.

[pruritis_ani]

Nice contribution.

What is simply pathetic is your post. While I do not agree with much that JP has said, I think he has at least developed a well researched and well thought out opinion. He is a smart guy, and likely a good one as well.

Resorting to posts like this is pretty sad. When people lose arguments, and have nothing to contribute, they get personal. Looks like you have joined that club.

[milos]

Nice contribution.

What is simply pathetic is your post. While I do not agree with much that JP has said, I think he has at least developed a well researched and well thought out opinion. He is a smart guy, and likely a good one as well.

Resorting to posts like this is pretty sad. When people lose arguments, and have nothing to contribute, they get personal. Looks like you have joined that club.

Edited because user can't play nice.

[jpryor]

This one has published newspaper accounts.

The press is frequently wrong, Empathy, but if you place that much stock in the media, let me be the first to warn you that George Bush really isn't an alien carrying Elvis' baby.

You have insisted that SC started in 1998 despite being repeatedly told that it did not. You have also repeatedly joined those that allege that a parent school never existed...that it didn't exist until 2003...and that there never was a charter. All of these allegations are flat out wrong. I suggest you pick up your phone and call IMED or, at the least, visit their web site.

[highway]

You've been badly wrong in the past don't repeat the same mistake again.....

There was no charter in Senegal till 2003 stop repeating these lies you really need to stop being a cheerleader for this bunch of con artists - you are eloquent in your arguements and as such I cannot equate your current stance with someone who shows this level of debating skills unless you like playing devils advocate....;) In which case you do it very well.

The press is frequently wrong, Empathy, but if you place that much stock in the media, let me be the first to warn you that George Bush really isn't an alien carrying Elvis' baby.

You have insisted that SC started in 1998 despite being repeatedly told that it did not. You have also repeatedly joined those that allege that a parent school never existed...that it didn't exist until 2003...and that there never was a charter. All of these allegations are flat out wrong. I suggest you pick up your phone and call IMED or, at the least, visit their web site.

[diogenes]

If you go to the new St. Chris IMD web site their History page gives the start date as 2000, http://www.stchrisimd.com/history.htm.
If I am to believe Tafka and Tritonsub, the Senegalese, having lied about the charter in order to get rid of the Doctor, have now reverted to the true story.

[ValuelessMD]

..........

[CorporateRaider]

TAFKA,

In my opinion, NO THEY CANNOT. Internal school regulations are not above the law. Let's take a look:

There is a "LAW OF THE LAND" so to speak, no one, not a "Natural Person", nor a "Corporate Person" is above the LAW that regulates the land, where one lives.

So in first place, we have = THE LAW.

Then we have a CORPORATE PERSON, in this case the SCHOOL, that has its own internal by-laws, rules and regulations. IN NO CASE, can the "internal regulations" of the SCHOOL, super-cede the LAW OF THE LAND.

Need an example?

THE LAW OF THE LAND SAYS THAT YOU CANNOT MURDER an indivudual and if you do you may be punished.

The INTERNAL BY-LAWS or REGULATIONS of a University, cannot say, well, if you really, really , hate your school mate, you can kill him, just try not to make a MESS.

Nothing and I mean NOTHING can supercede the written word of the LAW OF THE LAND.

================================================== ====

Now, I am basing my opinion on a model of civilized society, please don't respond with, "well in afghanistan they don't......................." ;

If you owe your school money, that is a civil debt., i.e., you signed for and are responsible to pay your debts to the school. Sure, the school made you sign off on a "if you don't pay me you won't get your credits, waiver". But in reality that is a civil debt and they must take you to court to collect, PERIOD. No school has the LEGAL AUTHORITY to deny you YOUR CREDITS. PERIOD. No amount of civil debt (in this case your lack of payment) allows them the authority to WITHOLD your credits.

I know, I know, you are skeptical right. Look at those wacky TV commercials, notice the fine print at the bottom of the screen? Did you know that some of the fine print reads " subject to the laws of your state" , "you may have legal re-course if you live in the state of xxxxx,xxxxxx,xxxxxxxxxxx" . "The following does not apply in the state of "xxxxxx, xxxxxxx, xxxxxxx" . Now why is that????? Because no matter what they made you sign, they know that the LAW OF THE LAND, supercedes anything they cooked up.



Can a school legally withhold transcripts from students with outstanding financial obligations if they do not own them?

[empathy]

I got the 1998 date from the St. Chris student site – MD Paradise. For a long time you guys used a ‘trail blazing’ student from 1998 for advertising purposes.

The press is frequently wrong, Empathy, but if you place that much stock in the media, let me be the first to warn you that George Bush really isn't an alien carrying Elvis' baby.

You have insisted that SC started in 1998 despite being repeatedly told that it did not. You have also repeatedly joined those that allege that a parent school never existed...that it didn't exist until 2003...and that there never was a charter. All of these allegations are flat out wrong. I suggest you pick up your phone and call IMED or, at the least, visit their web site.

[Genossa maximillian]

I know you clearly state IN MY OPINION however, since you have managed to (so eloquently speaking) elaborate on the theory on why a school should not deny your transcript if you owe them money, let me ask you a routine question asked in law school....Do you have any precedent case to substantiate your argument?

I mean, it is common practice to Universities to deny a student services like the release of transcripts if the student is in debt with a university. We agree to that. If your theory is correct, there must be some legal precedent out there. Can you refer to at least one?

Cheers

Max


TAFKA,

In my opinion, NO THEY CANNOT. Internal school regulations are not above the law. Let's take a look:

There is a "LAW OF THE LAND" so to speak, no one, not a "Natural Person", nor a "Corporate Person" is above the LAW that regulates the land, where one lives.

So in first place, we have = THE LAW.

Then we have a CORPORATE PERSON, in this case the SCHOOL, that has its own internal by-laws, rules and regulations. IN NO CASE, can the "internal regulations" of the SCHOOL, super-cede the LAW OF THE LAND.

Need an example?

THE LAW OF THE LAND SAYS THAT YOU CANNOT MURDER an indivudual and if you do you may be punished.

The INTERNAL BY-LAWS or REGULATIONS of a University, cannot say, well, if you really, really , hate your school mate, you can kill him, just try not to make a MESS.

Nothing and I mean NOTHING can supercede the written word of the LAW OF THE LAND.

================================================== ====

Now, I am basing my opinion on a model of civilized society, please don't respond with, "well in afghanistan they don't......................." ;

If you owe your school money, that is a civil debt., i.e., you signed for and are responsible to pay your debts to the school. Sure, the school made you sign off on a "if you don't pay me you won't get your credits, waiver". But in reality that is a civil debt and they must take you to court to collect, PERIOD. No school has the LEGAL AUTHORITY to deny you YOUR CREDITS. PERIOD. No amount of civil debt (in this case your lack of payment) allows them the authority to WITHOLD your credits.

I know, I know, you are skeptical right. Look at those wacky TV commercials, notice the fine print at the bottom of the screen? Did you know that some of the fine print reads " subject to the laws of your state" , "you may have legal re-course if you live in the state of xxxxx,xxxxxx,xxxxxxxxxxx" . "The following does not apply in the state of "xxxxxx, xxxxxxx, xxxxxxx" . Now why is that????? Because not matter what they made you sign, they know that the LAW OF THE LAND, supercedes anything they cooked up.

[empathy]

Students will have a hard time getting legal help with this because the college is unaccredited and the US and the UK do not recognize it as a medical college. Make sure the precedents you state involved unaccredited colleges - otherwise they cannot be applied. Students must prove they attended a legitimate college in order to rec' protection under any laws that might have been est. in regard to student transcripts. Otherwise, they will simply be told to file a civil suit. Like Oregon has always said St. Chris is a college that is not recognized by anyone. Students should try to get a start fresh at an accredited medical college.

Call an attorney for advice - many offer a free consultation.

http://www.rcfp.org/cgi-local/tapping/index.cgi?key=NY88

For JP,

Read the fine print on the WHO website about college listings and dates.

http://www.who.int/en/

[CorporateRaider]

Genossa, you are correct, I should have said, and now my amendment, that where I am located in Panama, and this would be the procedure. Probably under US laws, it would be on a state by state basis. Since Saint Chris is under UK laws, I don't know the procedure there and if they do not come under UK laws, then they are a simple business entity and have no form of official recognition, thus come under no country specific regulations; so it would be wise to check in Senegal to see what the laws state there.

Being a US corporation , I am sure the US might have a say so, but it does not take away that it's a BUSINESS ENTITY acting like a University. Since, superficially I see them as a Business Entity, I would haved sued the dicken's out of them, I mean, if I were speaking of a real situation and I was able to find some type of assets. I would also go after the administration personally, for all types of nasty little things, but of course, I am only talking of a possibility and since it's not really a possibility, then I don't really mean anything at all, but it's nice to think out loud and dream and ponder.


I know you clearly state IN MY OPINION however, since you have managed to (so eloquently speaking) elaborate on the theory on why a school should not deny your transcript if you owe them money, let me ask you a routine question asked in law school....Do you have any precedent case to substantiate your argument?

I mean, it is common practice to Universities to deny a student services like the release of transcripts if the student is in debt with a university. We agree to that. If your theory is correct, there must be some legal precedent out there. Can you refer to at least one?

Cheers

Max

[Genossa maximillian]

As I said before, the school was apparently established in 1998, that it did not managed to get a charter until later on or that it closed and re-opened it is not surprising. I do remember SC and St.Luke popped up by the same period of 1998 because I remember speaking to both DR. L and Dr. D over the phone to see if there was a relation between both schools since both were in Africa openning by the same time (coincidence) then by Dr. L own mouth he admitted being a Grace graduate and Dr. D telling me he was from Spartan.

To clarify something here, a school can (and there have been many instances) open and or establish itself in a country as a business and not get a formal charter until later on.








I got the 1998 date from the St. Chris student site – MD Paradise. For a long time you guys used a ‘trail blazing’ student from 1998 for advertising purposes.

[CorporateRaider]

To clarify something here, a school can (and there have been many instances) open and or establish itself in a country as a business and not get a formal charter until later on.

But the kicker is, a business entity, cannot issue "accredited" credits (redundant?), at least not in medical education, some government has to recognize them or the ministry of education of some country has to recognize them.

Look at what is going on with the International School of Nursing (run by the good doctor Robert Ross, Hc (Honoris Cause). They seem to be in a world of hurt over their non-accredited status.

[ol' man]

Nothing and I mean NOTHING can supercede the written word of the LAW OF THE LAND.

Although I agree that in this case you are mostly right, diplomatic immunity does supercede the law of the land. There are no absolutes.

[Genossa maximillian]

And that is what makes this case unique. A school that opened in 1998 but did not managed to get a charter until later on (2000, 2003 ? ) under some sort of unorthodox management schemes then gets into trouble for ... guess what.. a questionable charter and internal disputes.

Did Senegal recognized all studies conducted at SC valid on or before 2003? Are these credits valid under the Senegalese recognition of the school in 2003? Does it mean that graduates from 2002 graduated from an unchartered school? Does this fact renders their degrees worthless? IS ANY of this in writting, not by the school, but by the government of SENEGAL.

These are the questions that I would be scratching my head with if I was a member of the ECFMG Credentials Division.

The debt question that the student had, I think there are some specifics here not clarified by the student in question. For example, was the debt part of a payment plan or part of an internal loan the school gave the student or what?
The student need to clarify. However, I have rerely seen this happen if the debt was legitimate.



But the kicker is, a business entity, cannot issue "accredited" credits (redundant?), at least not in medical education, some government has to recognize them or the ministry of education of some country has to recognize them.

Look at what is going on with the International School of Nursing (run by the good doctor Robert Ross, Hc (Honoris Cause). They seem to be in a world of hurt over their non-accredited status.

[empathy]

We’ve seen what happens when you stick a reporter and a mic in the face of Senegal. They tell the truth. I don’t really see them putting anything in writing. They’d be foolish to do so now after an investigation has been done. England and the US know the St. Chris story inside and out. Doesn’t mean they won’t humor these guys a bit to see what they’ll come up with next. Sink the hook.

[jpryor]

I got the 1998 date from the St. Chris student site – MD Paradise. For a long time you guys used a ‘trail blazing’ student from 1998 for advertising purposes.

Okay, I can buy that "L" lied to students and students repeated the lie in good faith. But there never was a Senegalese chartered SC until 2000.

As for the "you guys"...I am not now nor have I ever been connected with SC in any manner. I have been advising and assisting SC students once they decided to take action.

[CorporateRaider]

I can't say exactly, that this case applies to St Chris, but I will say this.

What was opened in UK was a business, posing as a school. The correct procedure would have been to obtain the permit from Senegal (circa 1998) and then proced to establish the medical school. Unless I am wrong, the case of St Chris is there is not a fundamentally strong trail of paper evidence that supports that in 1998 this is what happened. I will go a step further though, at least from what has been discussed here, there is not a fundamentally strong enough paper trail, maybe there is, but we don't know about it. One thing is almost certain, governments, even poor ones, do not lose paperwork on such an important issue as the first PRIVATE MEDICAL SCHOOL and not just any PRIVATE MEDICAL SCHOOL, but one that is being opened in ENGLAND, so matter of record must exist. Governments do not just "forget" they have a medical school, especially a government such as Senegal, since if you look at the case, they appear to only have had ONE MEDICAL SCHOOL prior to the DIOP MAR medical school. The second medical school, a private one, would be big news.

No, no, there is something fishy about the whole thing, at least from a perspective of what has been discussed here. If there is factual information that has been overlooked, then those that have it did not feel the need to share it, which is valid.

But, just as it being valid for those in the know to not share the information, or at least not make it public, it's the right of the end user to not choose to consume their product. Which is from my understanding, exactly what is happening, or at least this is what the grape vine has brought forth.







And that is what makes this case unique. A school that opened in 1998 but did not managed to get a charter until later on (2000, 2003 ? ) under some sort of unorthodox management schemes then gets into trouble for ... guess what.. a questionable charter and internal disputes.

Did Senegal recognized all studies conducted at SC valid on or before 2003? Are these credits valid under the Senegalese recognition of the school in 2003? Does it mean that graduates from 2002 graduated from an unchartered school? Does this fact renders their degrees worthless? IS ANY of this in writting, not by the school, but by the government of SENEGAL.

These are the questions that I would be scratching my head with if I was a member of the ECFMG Credentials Division.

The debt question that the student had, I think there are some specifics here not clarified by the student in question. For example, was the debt part of a payment plan or part of an internal loan the school gave the student or what?
The student need to clarify. However, I have rerely seen this happen if the debt was legitimate.

[empathy]

They say they withheld the paperwork in order to run off the admin. I think they referred to it as cutting off the money or something.... But that doesn't make sense -- why destroy your school's reputation and hurt students in order to run off someone you supposedly hired. The worst thing you can say about a medical school is that there was a point in time when their students were not allowed to sit for exams. That they were 'suspended' and their degrees were deemed 'worthless' by the country where they attended school.

A professional establishment would have simply sent in their attorneys and made every effort, short of lying, to keep their dirty laundry quiet and out of the public eye. But if the story they have shared with students here is true then Senegal sat on their hands, withheld documents needed for students to move forward and purposely damaged the school's reputation. That's not good business in my book.

Either

a.) Senegal has no idea how to run a med school

OR

b.) The folks at the new school made up a bunch of silly stuff.

I vote b.) I bet the people of Senegal have no idea that these kids are here making them look so foolish.

[Genossa maximillian]

It will be a strategic move (as bad as it seems) to cut the paperwork, or invalidate the charter or not to produce it to run off the management, in this case, I assume DR. L. What good it is to have a medical school without a charter? What good does it do to L? Needless to say, the strategy did work, he panicked and desperately shopped around for a new charter and it had the side effect of a nasty split which sent a really bad message to the ECFMG not to mention what will happen to certain state medical boards. So to speak, if they did it to run off L or not, it served its purpose with detrimental consequences for the students.
Definitely not good business, but it served a purpose, as wild as it sounds.





They say they withheld the paperwork in order to run off the admin. I think they referred to it as cutting off the money or something.... But that doesn't make sense -- why destroy your school's reputation and hurt students in order to run off someone you supposedly hired. The worst thing you can say about a medical school is that there was a point in time when their students were not allowed to sit for exams. That they were 'suspended' and their degrees were deemed 'worthless' by the country where they attended school.

A professional establishment would have simply sent in their attorneys and made every effort, short of lying, to keep their dirty laundry quiet and out of the public eye. But, if the story they have shared with students here is true then Senegal sat on their hands, withheld documents needed for students to move forward and purposely damaged the school's reputation. That's not good business in my book.

Either

a.) Senegal has no idea how to run a med school

OR

b.) The folks at the new school made up a bunch of silly stuff.

I vote b.) I bet the people of Senegal have no idea that these kids are making them look so foolish.

[diogenes]

It will be a strategic move (as bad as it seems) to cut the paperwork, or invalidate the charter or not to produce it to run off the management, in this case, I assume DR. L. What good it is to have a medical school without a charter? What good does it do to L? Needless to say, the strategy did work, he panicked and desperately shopped around for a new charter and it had the side effect of a nasty split which sent a really bad message to the ECFMG not to mention what will happen to certain state medical boards. So to speak, if they did it to run off L or not, it served its purpose with detrimental consequences for the students.
Definitely not good business, but it served a purpose, as wild as it sounds.
To date it would also appear to have backfired as far as the GMC is concerned- "the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK with respect to the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements."
So far the letter sent on April 3rd by the Senegalese Health Minister to the GMC in an attempt to satisfy them on these very points has not produced any change- http://www.stchrisimd.com/charter.htm
If the GMC was ever going to revert to the status quo ante BBC it had to be satisfied of two things in equal measure: that there was a valid WHO listing, and that quality assurance by the parent university in Senegal was rigorous. Unsurprisingly, they appear to be as uncertain of the charter as we are. As for "quality assurance arrangements", if IMD had to resort to deceit on the question of the charter in order to regain control how could it claim to be an effective quality controller? The Senegalese have re-conquered Luton, but their methods have rendered it a Pyrrhic victory: they now have an asset of dubious worth.
The ECFMG and the state boards don't have to follow the GMC's ruling; but I imagine that, as said earlier by Genossa Maximillian, there will be a lot of head-scratching possibly followed by uncontrollable laughter (until they stop to think of the student victims in all this).
It's always possible that the Senegalese refutations, gyrations and confirmations are all part of a dance carefully choreographed in partnership with the GMC and the latter will, after a seemly period of penal servitude, welcome them back. That possibility is looking increasingly unlikely.

[Picard]

My advice is to look at the big picture and not to be short-sighted. Getting ECFMG back (if it ever occurs) is NOT a victory. It's a very basic and baby step in a much, much, much larger picture of licensure. The fiasco of SC will have much longer/larger implications come licensure time. Many state medical boards are scratching their heads now... Just remember that there are plenty of IMG"s holding ECFMG certs who are not licensible due to school reasons.

P

[teratos]

People really shouldn't touch a new school until there are a reasonable number of grads in practice. Picking a med school is like getting married. You are making a decision that will affect you in numerous ways, and that will follow you for the rest of your life. Going to a brand new offshore med school can have dire consequences. Look at the SC students. They married a seemingly totally hot chick, and she turned out to be a man in drag.

[highway]

ROFLMAO.......:D

Picking a med school is like getting married. You are making a decision that will affect you in numerous ways, and that will follow you for the rest of your life. Going to a brand new offshore med school can have dire consequences. Look at the SC students. They married a seemingly totally hot chick, and she turned out to be a man in drag.

[empathy]

The GMC has spoken to Oregon and reported that as of March no Senegalese school exists under this name. Could that be because they are no longer using the name St. Christopher's College of Medicine and are now using the name on the 2003 Charter. Is this a new school? And if so, that must mean the old one closed so what happens with degrees and credits awarded by St. Christopher's College of Medicine? I called Oregon and they said they'd update their site as soon as they get new info from the authorities in England. Students with questions should call Oregon. They are very kind and helpful.

http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/109455-oregon-update.html

[CorporateRaider]

Excellent point. Although my primary focus was the law the land in relation to oversight of a university and or business entity. Diplomatic Immunity is governed by Treaty Ratification.

Although I agree that in this case you are mostly right, diplomatic immunity does supercede the law of the land. There are no absolutes.

[CorporateRaider]

YES, IT WAS A "HAIL MARY" move, and it worked to get rid of Lay-o-Knee.

Did it produce the other desired results?

It will be a strategic move (as bad as it seems) to cut the paperwork, or invalidate the charter or not to produce it to run off the management, in this case, I assume DR. L. .......snip

[empathy]

Yes, but is that what really happened? Where's the evidence? Maybe it was all just smoke and mirrors.

They still haven't been able to produce a 2000 charter.