Ross will never be fair

[stolen dream]

who are the shareholders at Ross University?

[McGillGrad]

What happened?

[sheikh1]

Ross is rusty!!!!

[ut_cougar]

what happened?

[tRmedic21]

Shareholders? Ross is owned by Devry University... a for-profit enterprise which paid in excess of $300M for the school.... why does anything surprise you? lol

[Dru]

Sareholder information re. DeVry Inc. can be found at:
http://www.investors.devry.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=93880&p=irol-irhome

Shares are currently selling for $24.50.

[stolen dream]

I have to find out the best way to resolve my issue with Ross. I don't wanna just come to a public forum and raise some serious allegations about Ross. I really want to know the best way to handle this matter. Thanks in advance and God bless you all.

[stolen dream]

The White Nile joins the Blue Nile in Khartoum, Sudan. From them, the Great Nile emerges, roaring towards the North. A few miles north is the city of Omdurman. This is where I was born and attended my first twelve years of public school. During my high school summer vacation, I chose to travel through the expanded lands of western and eastern Sudan, and to live and interact with the vast majority of the tribes inhabiting the area. Love and admiration and a lifelong interest in traveling and anthropology were what I brought upon returning to Omdurman. It was in my last year in high school that, desertification and famine were striking hard in western Sudan, killing, displacing and disrupting the tribes I had grown to love. My beloved people were forced to seek refuge on the Nile, a week’s journey on foot from their native land in the west. Refugee camps were set up around the city of Omdurman. Many fresh short graves were scattered around the camps. I witnessed some of the mothers who lost all their children along their miserable journey. My frustration at the sense of helplessness and inability to save those malnourished children was over whelming.
Doctors without Borders main offices were not far from my high school. They helped restore my hope for the tribes by providing immediate medical care, saving lives and educating local health care providers. I was enlightened, fascinated and inspired by the fact that they helped all people regardless of country, religion or race. Doctors without Borders became the main focus of my life. Throughout my childhood a Chinese missionary doctor treated me. The memory of his compassion coming through his broken Arabic stays with me vividly to this day. Since then international humanitarian medicine became a cause I wanted to be a part of.
Before my seventeenth birthday, I left Sudan with two goals in mind, which were and still are to become a caring international medical doctor and eventually to join Doctors without Borders. I traveled from Sudan to Belgium. There I found the French language to be challenging however since most Doctors without Borders spoke it I found my self immersed and quickly adapted. I completed one year of French language and one academic year of pre-medical sciences at the Free University of Brussels, before the harsh weather exacerbated my asthma and the unfamiliarity and difficulty of the French system forced me to leave Belgium for Washington D.C. There I completed one academic year of pre-medical sciences at the University of the District of Columbia. While at the University of the District of Columbia, I discovered through an advertisement that there was a medical school in the island of Dominica, West Indies, called Ross University School of medicine that was recognized by the world Health organization (WHO). The advertisement further stated that the school has clinical training in teaching hospitals in the United States, United Kingdom, and the West Indies. I will never forget the thrill of my expectation to complete my basic medical science curriculum in Dominica, rotate in American teaching hospitals, complete a three month rotation of tropical medicine at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine, and then join Doctors without Borders. I applied to Ross University and was persuaded not to complete my undergraduate courses, because I could get accepted to the school based on the criteria of acceptance to medical schools in my home country. (A basic criterion of acceptance to Sudanese medical schools is finishing high school. Then you get enrolled in a six-year medical program in which “the first two years is the pre-medical curriculum”). During my interview I expressed my concerns about the status of my F-1 student Visa if I left the United States to attend an offshore school. My interviewer promised me that upon successful completion of my basic medical curriculum I would be granted a business Visa that would allow me to return to the United States to complete my clinical trainings at teaching hospitals. In May 1991, Ross University accepted me to enroll as a student in the semester beginning July 1991. My acceptance was based on the criteria of acceptance to medical school in Sudan.
Between1989 to 1991 Ross University accepted a number of international students into its medical school directly from high school, but the school did not have any pre-medical or English language preparatory programs. The international students were placed in an intensive medical program with American and Canadian students who held bachelor degrees or higher qualifications. Ninety- eight percent of the international students failed from the first semester as could be expected. The desperate young students were stuck in the island of Dominica; thousands of miles away from their homeland, unable to get the money they had spent to attend the school. Unfortunately, the majority of the international students were from Bangladesh, one of the world’s poorest country, and on desperate need of medical doctors. My compelling reason to include the international students in this matter is to show the similarity of our acceptance policy to the school and to voice that “our fate was the same.
When I arrived on the island of Dominica, its landscape and the smell of the tropic immediately took me. Soon I realized the politics of matriculation at a foreign medical school. Because I did not intend to practice medicine in the United States, and was already in love with the island and its people, I thought it would not bother me. I successfully completed my pre-clinical course curriculum in the four semesters, which was the time allotted. The school breached its promise in providing me with a business Visa as I was promised in my interview, as an immediate result of not obtaining my Visa I was unable to return to the United States or to Sudan for two months. This caused me tremendous pain and anguish. Ross University justified its inability to secure me a business Visa due to my inability to pay tuition at that time. I was unable to pay my tuition back then, because the Sudanese Commission of Education, who financed my involvement in the program, changed its policy regarding the funding of the education of Sudanese students studying abroad. Ross University did not meet the requisite standards of the Sudanese Commission of Education. The Sudanese Government discontinued funding my education after discovering that Ross University was not recognized by the American Medical Association, and its official letterhead was misleading to the effect that the Sudanese Government thought the School was located in New York City. The dean of the basic medical science in Dominica acknowledged that I was in the verge of becoming homeless and almost starving to death. Therefore he assisted me in getting a tourist Visa and told me that the school would assist me in getting a business Visa as soon as I started my clinical rotation. Finally, I returned to the United States, but soon I discovered that the school was not and would never be able to assist me in getting any type of Visa, because the school is considered by the Immigration and Naturalization Service as a foreign school and can not sponsor its foreign students to come to the United States and engage in any kind of education. Accordingly my life became very difficult in the United States.
I was in contact with the school on a regular basis to allow me to continue my education. Finally, the school agreed to let me continue my education without paying any tuition, but only under the condition that I locate my own clinical training sites. During that period of time the school had a very limited number of clinical training sites, which inversely correlated with the high number of students accepted to its program. The school mainly depended upon its students in expanding its affiliation with hospitals. After a tremendous effort, I was able to locate Prince George’s Hospital Center, a teaching institute in Cheverly, Maryland where I completed radiology elective with a grade of honors. While in my radiology rotation I established a good reputation and the chief of trauma surgery at the same hospital promised me that as soon as I completed my radiology rotation I could start surgery rotation with him. The school accepted that, but after completing seven weeks and four days (my grade was honors), the school forced me to stop, and immediately claimed the surgery department, and began to place its students in it in a regular basis. At that time I was able to pay my tuition, but the school continued to impede my progress in my medical education. I was consistently advised by the school to do my clinical trainings at non- teaching hospitals in Chicago, Illinois, but knowing the importance of doing my clinical training at teaching hospitals, I strongly refused. The school did not provide me with any clinical clerkship, except for a psychiatry rotation in Kansas City, Missouri, under the condition that I give up my opportunities of doing my rotations in pediatrics and obstetrics and gynecology in New York City. The dean of clinical sciences promised me that if I went to Kansas City and did psychiatry, I would be placed in a twelve weeks rotation in internal medicine in Jamaica hospital in New York. I knew the school needed to place some other students in my pediatrics and obstetrics and gynecology rotations in New York City and many students did not like to go to the Midwest for rotations. I accepted to go to Kansas City and do my psychiatry rotation for three reasons. Firstly, the school had a very limited number of hospitals where you could do the internal medicine core, and, secondly, there were many students who had finished their basic sciences and were waiting for clinical trainings placement. Finally, there was the thrill and excitement of discovering a new place. I completed my psychiatry rotation and my evaluation was superior. The dean of clinical sciences breached its promise in not providing me with the internal medicine core, pediatrics, and obstetrics and gynecology rotations. Again after a tremendous effort with the school I was allowed to complete a Pediatrics rotation at Prince George’s hospital and my grade was a pass.
The school continued to impede my progress in my education, and I was frustrated to see my classmates and many students from classes behind me rotating to hospitals where I was denied the same opportunity on many different occasions. I knew I had only one option and that was to locate hospitals where the school would see the possibility in sending its students. I went back to Kansas City, Missouri and began an intensive search for such hospitals, and finally I was able to locate Saint Luke’s Hospital, which is a primary teaching hospital of the University of Missouri - Kansas City School of Medicine. There I completed internal medicine core, with an elective in cardiology and research in cardiology at the nationally known Mid-America Heart Institute, general surgery, and thoracic surgery. My evaluation was honors in all my rotations at Saint Luke’s, except for a pass in thoracic surgery. I was welcomed to do my residency at their program.
During my rotation at Saint Luke’s Hospital, Ross University stopped me again from finishing my surgery rotation. Accordingly, the program’s associate dean, Dr. xxxxxxxxxxx wrote Ross University informing them about my distinctly above average job, and that my fund of knowledge exceeded that of the medical students who were on the service with me at that time. He further stated that because of their experience with me, they would be open to accept students from Ross University on the medicine services. I also wrote Ross University explaining to them the unfair treatment I had endured. Ross University did not respond to me or to Dr. Hall. The next thing I heard from them was my dismissal letter.
Throughmonths of intensive research, I came to the conclusion that Ross University dismissed me because my acceptance was based on the criteria of acceptance to Sudanese medical school, and I was the last one of the international students who made it that far. When the Department of Education’s National Commission for Medical Education and Accreditation was formed in 1994, U.S Secretary of Education Richard W. Riley underscore its role in assuring that federal students loans would “only go to foreign medical schools that provide a high quality education to its students.” Ross University definitely was not one of the schools that provide a high quality of education, but the school wanted badly to be one of them, so it could continue defrauding the U.S Government in getting millions of dollars in federal funds through the acceptance of high number of unqualified students to its program, and then get rid of them, or expect that many of them would not be able to make it far. The school conspired with some members of the New York Office for Civil Rights (OCR) in the Department of Education, and the Education Commission for foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG), to achieve its goal in continuing to receive federal funds from the Department of Education, approval for clinical clerkships in New Jersey, and New York State Education Department’s approval to offer its full clinical program in New York. Ross University outrageously violated my civil rights on many different occasions and my dismissal was fraudulent. Through my litigation against the school, I was able to obtain some documentation and information that support my allegation against the school, the OCR in New York and ECFMG. The school continued to abuse me and violate my civil rights and make it impossible for me to pursue with my legal case. I dedicated my life for medicine, and to expose Ross University and its wrongdoing. I am aware of what you stand for and your involvement in the international medicine. I believe I have strong foundation in medicine and great initiative in research, and my experience with Ross University acquired me a different dimension of intelligence, and reality. I strongly miss the art of healing people, and I want to experience it again. After my dismissal, I went through stages of denial, anger, and frustration, but finally I was able to get my self together. I was fortunate to explore the area of electrophisyology of plants, molecular biology, and medicinal plants at North Carolina State University. I also completed seventy-two credit hours of sciences at ....... I am longing for the day that I will be part of your team, and I hope you will consider my complex biography, as a cry for help.
Thank you for your consideration. I remain yours truly,

[singer]

I have to find out the best way to resolve my issue with Ross. I don't wanna just come to a public forum and raise some serious allegations about Ross. I really want to know the best way to handle this matter. Thanks in advance and God bless you all.

Not knowing your problems with ROSS I beleive that there must be someone internally that you can speak to that will help resolve your problem or give you an honest answer.

Of course if the problems result from bad study habits or similiar types of instances then it is not the MEDICAL school that should be responsible to solve your problems. They can only give you ideas to help!

[McGillGrad]

That is rough, but I fail to see how it is Ross' fault.

[singer]

Sorry for your predicament but surely you don't think that all students with money problems should be funded by a ROSS schoarship? I don;t beleive that anyone looking at the ROSS website sees any info that ROSS is a US MEdical school locate in New York and recognized by the AMA.

[tRmedic21]

I don't know, multiple times do you talk about Ross violating your civil rights and repeatedly holding you back and obstructing your progress, but you never gave any specifics. Also you didn't elaborate on the reasons behind your dismissal. Any why was Ross denying clinical rotations you had approved through the hospitals? It isn't in their best interests to do so, since if you're not rotating, you're not paying, although I'm not sure if you ever were after you initially talked them into letting you go to school for free, were you?

Whole thing sounds quite unclear, in my mind. Usually in stories like this, there is really alot more to the story that we never know.

[Voldemort]

ANY International (espcially for money ) school would dismiss you if you failed to pay your tuition.

Why did you not deal with loans and things like that with the financial office.


Why were you dismissed from Ross University?


Can a School Official Answer thins guy?

Because his story is frightening some new people who are considering Ross like my self.

[jim]

if thios story is true, sorry to hear about yoru troubles. but,
1. Visa issues are NEVER the problem of a school or business, they are the primary concern of the person getting the visa. at best, a school can send a nice letter for you.

2. These problems occurred 3 owners ago. I started at Ross in the last semester the school was owned by oldman R***(cant say names on the site!) we never heard of anything like this happening.

3. Tuition must be paid to attend. that goes with every school in the world.

[jim]

from your other post, its obvious this happened so long ago, that the school will tell you"tough luck". it happened so long ago that even if they had doen something criminal, it would be beyond the statute of limitations, and nothing would be done!

[stolen dream]

I don't see how is the statue of limitation is relevant to a public forum?

[stolen dream]

Singer, it was not a money issue the whole time. The money issue was resolved, but the dean of clinical sciences continued to impede my academic progress.
Jim, about the visa isuue, I was completely misled. I will elaborate on this later. Thanks and God bless

[stolen dream]

I wanna know my chances of suing the US Dept. of education?
The Dept. is the entity that was supposed to protect me from the atrociety of Ross, but unfortunatly it protected Ross.

[McGillGrad]

I would consult an attorney about the validity of any claim against the DoE.

[Scott1981]

are you even a US citizen?

im failing to see where your case holds water. i dont think its the US DoE's job to protect the education of foreign non US citzens in foreign schools.

i think you should sue the sudanese govt. just because its easy to file a lawsuit in the US does not mean that you should just because you are angry. that case would just tie up our already clogged courts.

it also doesnt help that all this happened many years ago. even if the DoE wanted to close down ross, they cant. the most they could do was eliminate federal loans....... which wouldnt close the school down.

[stolen dream]

Yeh, I'm a legal alien.

[Scott1981]

Yeh, I'm a legal alien.

i think your best bet would be to sue ross. unfortunetely, i wouldnt hold out any hope for this. it happened long ago, and whatever paper trail there is would have been faded by now.

you would really need to have rock solid proof. it cant be a he said/she said case.

[McGillGrad]

Yeh, I'm a legal alien.

I have patiently listened to your hard-luck story and even though I am sympathetic to your situation, you are in no position to extract anything from Ross or the DoE.

It would be best to move on with your life in America or get on a boat and go back to your original country. Bitterness and hate will eat away at you otherwise.

[McGillGrad]

i think your best bet would be to sue ross. unfortunetely, i wouldnt hold out any hope for this. it happened long ago, and whatever paper trail there is would have been faded by now.

you would really need to have rock solid proof. it cant be a he said/she said case.

Unhelpful advice, but I do not blame you for your knee-jerk reaction to sue (even though there are no grounds and the American court's jurisdiction is shaky, at best) because suing is the American way.

[MDXRS22]

I have patiently listened to your hard-luck story and even though I am sympathetic to your situation, you are in no position to extract anything from Ross or the DoE.

It would be best to move on with your life in America or get on a boat and go back to your original country. Bitterness and hate will eat away at you otherwise.

LOL:)

Anyone, please feel free to pitch in for the boat ride:)

He will not be even heard if he tries. I do feel sorry for that person.

[Scott1981]

I have patiently listened to your hard-luck story and even though I am sympathetic to your situation, you are in no position to extract anything from Ross or the DoE.

It would be best to move on with your life in America or get on a boat and go back to your original country. Bitterness and hate will eat away at you otherwise.

the story is a sad one, but i will say that there are two sides to every story. whe just havent heard the other side.

i agree with you mcgill.

[Scott1981]

Unhelpful advice, but I do not blame you for your knee-jerk reaction to sue (even though there are no grounds and the American court's jurisdiction is shaky, at best) because suing is the American way.

i agree. there really isnt any case. i wouldnt even bother suing. just another case to tie up the overburdened system.

what i was saying was while comparing the two (DoE and ross), it would seem that suing ross would maybe yield a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of victory while suing the DoE would be flat out 0%.

[McGillGrad]

i agree. there really isnt any case. i wouldnt even bother suing. just another case to tie up the overburdened system.

what i was saying was while comparing the two (DoE and ross), it would seem that suing ross would maybe yield a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of victory while suing the DoE would be flat out 0%.


Hahaha... yes, we agree there:twisted:

[stolen dream]

The dean of the clinical sciences at Ross University took away my dream from me, and I want it back, and I will fight for it.

[Camille]

Sorry to hear that. WHo exactly? Because I had a problem with one of them myself

[Scott1981]

I don't see how is the statue of limitation is relevant to a public forum?

you are the one who brought up suing in other threads. :bored:

[Scott1981]

this is getting old. quit making new threads. you had your initial thread where you told your half of the story. there is really no need to open a new thread with every new thought about this that pops into your head.

[stolen dream]

Why taking a boat back home? I am a citizen of this country. I will be here to equate justice, not to get financial gain, but to share with you and all prospective students the hidden truth about Ross. Please, Mr Mcgill.. canadian fellow be gentle.

[stolen dream]

Scotty81000000,
Whats the deal with you man? just be gentle.

[Scott1981]

Scotty81000000,
Whats the deal with you man? just be gentle.

i feel for you, but i think you will probably have more reception with keeping it all on one thread.

i think maybe you should look into starting from scratch at a new school. if ross has your basic science transcript, you may be able to slide into clinicals asap as a transfer.

it may not be at auc, sgu, or saba...... but you would still get to your ultimate goal in no time.

the problem is that you are letting ross hold control of your future. if you cut loose of ross and go somewhere else, the ball will be back in your court.

[tno77]

Can a School Official Answer thins guy?

Because his story is frightening some new people who are considering Ross like my self.

Why? I don't think Ross takes foreign nationals...there's a reason they only accept north americans. One is the ability to pay, the other is the ability to get a work visa.

[Scott1981]

i dont get it, earlier in this thread.... you said that you were a legal alien? that isnt being a citizen. that is being a legal resident but not a citizen.

[McGillGrad]

Why taking a boat back home? I am a citizen of this country. I will be here to equate justice, not to get financial gain, but to share with you and all prospective students the hidden truth about Ross. Please, Mr Mcgill.. canadian fellow be gentle.

You said you were a legal resident. That does not mean much beyond the right to stay in the US without being deported.

[stolen dream]

McG. I do not like your sense of humor. I am a citizen of the USA, naturalized citzen legal alien legal residen what ever you call it. Not eligible for deportation thats the best way to put it.

[Scott1981]

McG. I do not like your sense of humor. I am a citizen of the USA, naturalized citzen legal alien legal residen what ever you call it. Not eligible for deportation thats the best way to put it.


they all mean different things. are you allowed to vote in an election or could you obtain a united states passport?

secondly, any thought about my previous posts pertaining to transfering into clinical sciences?

[McGillGrad]

Actually only natural born citizens are not eligble for deportation. You can still be stripped of your citizenship and deported in certain cases.


McG. I do not like your sense of humor. I am a citizen of the USA, naturalized citzen legal alien legal residen what ever you call it. Not eligible for deportation thats the best way to put it.

[stolen dream]

Scotty I like you man you are reasonable man, but you my canadian fellow you ain't a legal resident you will be deported. Mr Scotty I'm a holder of a green card, and thank you for the transfer issue. the thing is that where ever I try to transfer they would ask me, how come you did your undergraduate after your medical school.

[Mark99]

It would be best to move on with your life in America or get on a boat and go back to your original country..

Wow- what right do you have to tell anyone to "go back to ther original country"?! That sounds very racist!

[McGillGrad]

Scotty I like you man you are reasonable man, but you my canadian fellow you ain't a legal resident you will be deported. Mr Scotty I'm a holder of a green card, and thank you for the transfer issue. the thing is that where ever I try to transfer they would ask me, how come you did your undergraduate after your medical school.

Oh, what tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

Tell us the truth!!!! What is the true story?

[Scott1981]

Scotty I like you man you are reasonable man, but you my canadian fellow you ain't a legal resident you will be deported. Mr Scotty I'm a holder of a green card, and thank you for the transfer issue. the thing is that where ever I try to transfer they would ask me, how come you did your undergraduate after your medical school.

you know, it couldnt hurt to try. get your basic science transcripts and apply for transfer to a lot of carib schools. somebody will bite. yes, maybe when it comes to licensure in certain states there will be questions...... but you technically would have satisfied their minimum standards, and that is all that is required in certain states.

[McGillGrad]

Wow- what right do you have to tell anyone to "go back to ther original country"?! That sounds very racist!

In order to be racist, I would have to allude to his race. I think the term you are searching for is 'xenophobic.' (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=%27xenophobic.%27%20)

I went ahead and linked the word to its definition to help you build your vocabulary.

[McGillGrad]

Yeh, I'm a legal alien....

I am a citizen of the USA, naturalized citzen legal alien legal residen what ever you call it....

Mr Scotty I'm a holder of a green card...

You are not telling the truth somewhere. Which one is it?

[rokshana]

McG. I do not like your sense of humor. I am a citizen of the USA, naturalized citzen legal alien legal residen what ever you call it. Not eligible for deportation thats the best way to put it.

if you ARE a naturalized citizen, you would know that the above terms all have different meanings.

do you hold a sudanese passport as well as the green card? Then you are a resident alien and are subject to deportation if there is just cause (though sueing the DoE isn't one of them!!)

and mcgill is right, even as a naturalized citizen, there are circumstances that could lead the US to strip you of your citizenship and deport you (but you have to do something really really bad-tantamount to treason or swearing allegance to another nation).

[stolen dream]

A thread that was titled "part of the story", is no longer there. Can one of you tell me what went wrong?

[miasma]

proilly got merged with one of your many other threads.

[brob311]

. Mr Scotty I'm a holder of a green card.

If you break any felony law, you will deported back to your country if you hold a green card. It is too bad that it is not a felony to change your story to convince others of the wrong doings against you. If you are telling the truth I am sorry about what happened to you, but the opening of your story sounded like the opening narration to a movie.

[lilac8797]

Wow Stolen Dreams, do I feel sorry for you. And unfortunately not because of your story but because of your mind. I think there is something wrong up there. Your story sounds a bit preposterous and your 'citizenship' issue makes your creditability lose a few notches. If your story is true than you should have done something about it many years ago, not come on this forum and attempt to scare new and potential students - that said, I find your story difficult to swallow and with the dip in your creditability the pill seems jagged at best.

I hope you are able to find peace in your life and cease the scare tacts on this forum.

[FoxTrot]

it's a conspiracy. It was taken down b/c Ross doesn't want people to know the truth and plot that you're uncovering.

[MDXRS22]

Yeah. I just heard it too. You should file a complaint about them conspiring against you.

They even wired his Pc and watched all his moves and key strokes:)

[rokshana]

A thread that was titled "part of the story", is no longer there. Can one of you tell me what went wrong?

it was merged with other one you started on the same topic

[Voldemort]

you should blame the sudanese government for your troubles

not ross university

[onelifetolive]

Hi Stolen_Dreams ~

Please do not listen to those who fail to show compassion or sympathy.

I have thoroughly read your story and highlighted some key points. But please remember as you go through my opinions, that ROSS means rely on self study. This is not limited to just academics but all the other logistical stuff. I believe that one should study/learn about the licensure details, immigration details, clinical and clerkship hospitals, residency programs, etc. I believe that proper planning and research will maximize one's chances of succeeding in whatever he/she does:


1. During the interview you expressed your concerns regarding your visa status and the interviewer promised that you would be allowed to get a business visa upon completion of your basic sciences.


my reply: The interviewer should not have given you false promises which shows that the only goal of the interviewer is to get your money.



2. "The school did not have any pre-medical or English languange preparatory programs."


my reply: Not the school's fault. You should have known this before you even considered ROSS. A thorough scan of the curriculum is important especially if you may need extra help in English.



3. "The school breached its promise in providing me with a business Visa as I was promised in my interview, as an immediate result of not obtaining my Visa I was unable to return to the United States or to Sudan for two months. This caused me tremendous pain and anguish. RossUniversity justified its inability to secure me a business Visa due to my inability to pay tuition at that time"


my reply. Please notice that you were contradicting yourself and it seems to me that the school could have provided you with the visa had you kept up with the payments. The school has not failed to provide you with a visa at this time according to the school's justification. Again please keep in mind the meaning of R.O.S.S. The school will only "assist" you in getting a VISA, meaning that you have to go out there and sort the main stuff out for getting a visa, but the school will remain as a backsupport. If you are expecting to sit back and just let the school do everything or most of the work for setting up the VISA then your dreaming. This is just my present understanding.



4. You were unable to pay for your tuition because of the policy changes made by the Sudanese Gov't. In effect, the gov't stoped funding you because at the time ROSS was not accredited by the AMA.


my reply: This is unfortunate. I believe that there is meaning to every struggle we face. I believe there is a reason for everything. Question: Did you realize that ROSS was not accredited by the AMA prior to applying?



5. "Finally, I returned to the United States, but soon I discovered that the school was not and would never be able to assist me in getting any type of Visa, because the school is considered by the Immigration and Naturalization Service as a foreign school and can not sponsor its foreign students to come to the United States and engage in any kind of education. "


my reply: This you should have researched way before I think.



6. The school mainly depended upon its students in expanding its affiliation with hospitals.



my reply: This is important. It is an off-shore school and students who graduate from ROSS should impress the US hospitals. Indeed, we are pulling out some extraordinary grads who just elevate our school's reputation and standards. However, I am not sure whether ROSS mainly depends on its grads to expand affiliations.



7. "the school forced me to stop, and immediately claimed the surgery department, and began to place its students in it in a regular basis. At that time I was able to pay my tuition, but the school continued to impede my progress in my medical education"


my reply: I can not comment on this. I am not sure how or why ROSS would have a personal agenda against you. Why would they let you suffer and forcefully try to screw you over, they are not satanic or anything. But you know what anything can happen in this world. So my opinion remains neutral on this statement.



8. "The dean of clinical sciences breached its promise in not providing me with the internal medicine core, pediatrics, and obstetrics and gynecology rotations"



my reply: I am terribly sorry about this. But again please remember that God shapes individuals and struggles is a way He does it. My life is a testimony to that.



9. "Throughmonths of intensive research, I came to the conclusion that RossUniversity dismissed me because my acceptance was based on the criteria of acceptance to Sudanese medical school, and I was the last one of the international students who made it that far. "


my reply: no comment.



MY FINAL NOTES:

You have definitely gone through a lot. You are a good person and I must congratulate your victory of not losing your dignity over this issue. Be strong and you will accomplish your dream. I am not sure whether you should consider a lawsuit. Perhaps there were some bad apples when you applied in 1991 or perhaps there was some communication problem between you and the admin. I think if you do go forward with a lawsuit you may jeopardize your chances of entering any off-shore. I think what you should do, if your grades are sufficient, is apply to another off-shore school. OR for the grandest act of forgiveness, re-apply to ROSS. Release any bitterness and face your problems head on. Forgiveness is a powerful act and will free you from the past. Personally, if I was an interviewer and read your personal statement, I would definitely accept you. If I were you, I would reapply, but then again I have not personally experienced what you went through. If you want any other advice please PM me. Good luck, and never stop, always keep moving. If you get knocked down, get up, dust off the dirt and start moving again. You will become a doctor, I am sure of it.






" The White Nile joins the Blue Nile in Khartoum, Sudan. From them, the Great Nile emerges, roaring towards the North. A few miles north is the city of Omdurman. This is where I was born and attended my first twelve years of public school. During my high school summer vacation, I chose to travel through the expanded lands of western and eastern Sudan, and to live and interact with the vast majority of the tribes inhabiting the area. Love and admiration and a lifelong interest in traveling and anthropology were what I brought upon returning to Omdurman. It was in my last year in high school that, desertification and famine were striking hard in western Sudan, killing, displacing and disrupting the tribes I had grown to love. My beloved people were forced to seek refuge on the Nile, a week’s journey on foot from their native land in the west. Refugee camps were set up around the city of Omdurman. Many fresh short graves were scattered around the camps. I witnessed some of the mothers who lost all their children along their miserable journey. My frustration at the sense of helplessness and inability to save those malnourished children was over whelming.
Doctors without Borders main offices were not far from my high school. They helped restore my hope for the tribes by providing immediate medical care, saving lives and educating local health care providers. I was enlightened, fascinated and inspired by the fact that they helped all people regardless of country, religion or race. Doctors without Borders became the main focus of my life. Throughout my childhood a Chinese missionary doctor treated me. The memory of his compassion coming through his broken Arabic stays with me vividly to this day. Since then international humanitarian medicine became a cause I wanted to be a part of.
Before my seventeenth birthday, I left Sudan with two goals in mind, which were and still are to become a caring international medical doctor and eventually to join Doctors without Borders. I traveled from Sudan to Belgium. There I found the French language to be challenging however since most Doctors without Borders spoke it I found my self immersed and quickly adapted. I completed one year of French language and one academic year of pre-medical sciences at the Free University of Brussels, before the harsh weather exacerbated my asthma and the unfamiliarity and difficulty of the French system forced me to leave Belgium for WashingtonD.C. There I completed one academic year of pre-medical sciences at the University of the District of Columbia. While at the University of the District of Columbia, I discovered through an advertisement that there was a medical school in the island of Dominica, West Indies, called RossUniversitySchool of medicine that was recognized by the world Health organization (WHO). The advertisement further stated that the school has clinical training in teaching hospitals in the United States, United Kingdom, and the West Indies. I will never forget the thrill of my expectation to complete my basic medical science curriculum in Dominica, rotate in American teaching hospitals, complete a three month rotation of tropical medicine at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine, and then join Doctors without Borders. I applied to RossUniversity and was persuaded not to complete my undergraduate courses, because I could get accepted to the school based on the criteria of acceptance to medical schools in my home country. (A basic criterion of acceptance to Sudanese medical schools is finishing high school. Then you get enrolled in a six-year medical program in which “the first two years is the pre-medical curriculum”). During my interview I expressed my concerns about the status of my F-1 student Visa if I left the United States to attend an offshore school. My interviewer promised me that upon successful completion of my basic medical curriculum I would be granted a business Visa that would allow me to return to the United States to complete my clinical trainings at teaching hospitals. In May 1991, RossUniversity accepted me to enroll as a student in the semester beginning July 1991. My acceptance was based on the criteria of acceptance to medical school in Sudan.
Between1989 to 1991 RossUniversity accepted a number of international students into its medical school directly from high school, but the school did not have any pre-medical or English language preparatory programs. The international students were placed in an intensive medical program with American and Canadian students who held bachelor degrees or higher qualifications. Ninety- eight percent of the international students failed from the first semester as could be expected. The desperate young students were stuck in the island of Dominica; thousands of miles away from their homeland, unable to get the money they had spent to attend the school. Unfortunately, the majority of the international students were from Bangladesh, one of the world’s poorest country, and on desperate need of medical doctors. My compelling reason to include the international students in this matter is to show the similarity of our acceptance policy to the school and to voice that “our fate was the same.
When I arrived on the island of Dominica, its landscape and the smell of the tropic immediately took me. Soon I realized the politics of matriculation at a foreign medical school. Because I did not intend to practice medicine in the United States, and was already in love with the island and its people, I thought it would not bother me. I successfully completed my pre-clinical course curriculum in the four semesters, which was the time allotted. The school breached its promise in providing me with a business Visa as I was promised in my interview, as an immediate result of not obtaining my Visa I was unable to return to the United States or to Sudan for two months. This caused me tremendous pain and anguish. RossUniversity justified its inability to secure me a business Visa due to my inability to pay tuition at that time. I was unable to pay my tuition back then, because the Sudanese Commission of Education, who financed my involvement in the program, changed its policy regarding the funding of the education of Sudanese students studying abroad. RossUniversity did not meet the requisite standards of the Sudanese Commission of Education. The Sudanese Government discontinued funding my education after discovering that RossUniversity was not recognized by the American Medical Association, and its official letterhead was misleading to the effect that the Sudanese Government thought the School was located in New York City. The dean of the basic medical science in Dominica acknowledged that I was in the verge of becoming homeless and almost starving to death. Therefore he assisted me in getting a tourist Visa and told me that the school would assist me in getting a business Visa as soon as I started my clinical rotation. Finally, I returned to the United States, but soon I discovered that the school was not and would never be able to assist me in getting any type of Visa, because the school is considered by the Immigration and Naturalization Service as a foreign school and can not sponsor its foreign students to come to the United States and engage in any kind of education. Accordingly my life became very difficult in the United States.
I was in contact with the school on a regular basis to allow me to continue my education. Finally, the school agreed to let me continue my education without paying any tuition, but only under the condition that I locate my own clinical training sites. During that period of time the school had a very limited number of clinical training sites, which inversely correlated with the high number of students accepted to its program. The school mainly depended upon its students in expanding its affiliation with hospitals. After a tremendous effort, I was able to locate Prince George’s HospitalCenter, a teaching institute in Cheverly, Maryland where I completed radiology elective with a grade of honors. While in my radiology rotation I established a good reputation and the chief of trauma surgery at the same hospital promised me that as soon as I completed my radiology rotation I could start surgery rotation with him. The school accepted that, but after completing seven weeks and four days (my grade was honors), the school forced me to stop, and immediately claimed the surgery department, and began to place its students in it in a regular basis. At that time I was able to pay my tuition, but the school continued to impede my progress in my medical education. I was consistently advised by the school to do my clinical trainings at non- teaching hospitals in Chicago, Illinois, but knowing the importance of doing my clinical training at teaching hospitals, I strongly refused. The school did not provide me with any clinical clerkship, except for a psychiatry rotation in Kansas City, Missouri, under the condition that I give up my opportunities of doing my rotations in pediatrics and obstetrics and gynecology in New York City. The dean of clinical sciences promised me that if I went to Kansas City and did psychiatry, I would be placed in a twelve weeks rotation in internal medicine in Jamaica hospital in New York. I knew the school needed to place some other students in my pediatrics and obstetrics and gynecology rotations in New York City and many students did not like to go to the Midwest for rotations. I accepted to go to Kansas City and do my psychiatry rotation for three reasons. Firstly, the school had a very limited number of hospitals where you could do the internal medicine core, and, secondly, there were many students who had finished their basic sciences and were waiting for clinical trainings placement. Finally, there was the thrill and excitement of discovering a new place. I completed my psychiatry rotation and my evaluation was superior. The dean of clinical sciences breached its promise in not providing me with the internal medicine core, pediatrics, and obstetrics and gynecology rotations. Again after a tremendous effort with the school I was allowed to complete a Pediatrics rotation at Prince George’s hospital and my grade was a pass.
The school continued to impede my progress in my education, and I was frustrated to see my classmates and many students from classes behind me rotating to hospitals where I was denied the same opportunity on many different occasions. I knew I had only one option and that was to locate hospitals where the school would see the possibility in sending its students. I went back to Kansas City, Missouri and began an intensive search for such hospitals, and finally I was able to locate Saint Luke’s Hospital, which is a primary teaching hospital of the University of Missouri - Kansas City School of Medicine. There I completed internal medicine core, with an elective in cardiology and research in cardiology at the nationally known Mid-America Heart Institute, general surgery, and thoracic surgery. My evaluation was honors in all my rotations at Saint Luke’s, except for a pass in thoracic surgery. I was welcomed to do my residency at their program.
During my rotation at Saint Luke’s Hospital, RossUniversity stopped me again from finishing my surgery rotation. Accordingly, the program’s associate dean, Dr. Ralph R. Hall wrote RossUniversity informing them about my distinctly above average job, and that my fund of knowledge exceeded that of the medical students who were on the service with me at that time. He further stated that because of their experience with me, they would be open to accept students from RossUniversity on the medicine services. I also wrote RossUniversity explaining to them the unfair treatment I had endured. RossUniversity did not respond to me or to Dr. Hall. The next thing I heard from them was my dismissal letter.
Throughmonths of intensive research, I came to the conclusion that RossUniversity dismissed me because my acceptance was based on the criteria of acceptance to Sudanese medical school, and I was the last one of the international students who made it that far. When the Department of Education’s National Commission for Medical Education and Accreditation was formed in 1994, U.S Secretary of Education Richard W. Riley underscore its role in assuring that federal students loans would “only go to foreign medical schools that provide a high quality education to its students.” Ross University definitely was not one of the schools that provide a high quality of education, but the school wanted badly to be one of them, so it could continue defrauding the U.S Government in getting millions of dollars in federal funds through the acceptance of high number of unqualified students to its program, and then get rid of them, or expect that many of them would not be able to make it far. The school conspired with some members of the New York Office for Civil Rights (OCR) in the Department of Education, and the Education Commission for foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG), to achieve its goal in continuing to receive federal funds from the Department of Education, approval for clinical clerkships in New Jersey, and New York State Education Department’s approval to offer its full clinical program in New York. RossUniversity outrageously violated my civil rights on many different occasions and my dismissal was fraudulent. Through my litigation against the school, I was able to obtain some documentation and information that support my allegation against the school, the OCR in New York and ECFMG. The school continued to abuse me and violate my civil rights and make it impossible for me to pursue with my legal case. I dedicated my life for medicine, and to expose RossUniversity and its wrongdoing. I am aware of what you stand for and your involvement in the international medicine. I believe I have strong foundation in medicine and great initiative in research, and my experience with RossUniversity acquired me a different dimension of intelligence, and reality. I strongly miss the art of healing people, and I want to experience it again. After my dismissal, I went through stages of denial, anger, and frustration, but finally I was able to get my self together. I was fortunate to explore the area of electrophisyology of plants, molecular biology, and medicinal plants at North CarolinaStateUniversity. I also completed seventy-two credit hours of sciences at ....... I am longing for the day that I will be part of your team, and I hope you will consider my complex biography, as a cry for help.
Thank you for your consideration. I remain yours truly, "

[myfavred]

I just have these questions.

If the OP has a green card why would he need a visa in America. Also as a green card holder you are eligible for financial aid. So why wouldn't he get loans as financial aid.

[stolen dream]

Onelifetolive,
Thanks, thank you very much, for a moment I almost thought that all the participants of this forum lack compassion, until you came. Thank you again and God bless you

[stolen dream]

Myfavred,
back then I had F1 visa(student visa).

[stolen dream]

onelifetolive,
based on my personal statment you think I went through alot, but wait until I pm you with my horrible experiences with:
1- Ross University former attorney
2- Federal agents from US. department of education
3- The ECFMG in Philadelphia.

[McGillGrad]

onelifetolive,
based on my personal statment you think I went through alot, but wait until I pm you with my horrible experiences with:
1- Ross University former attorney
2- Federal agents from US. department of education
3- The ECFMG in Philadelphia.

So far you have proved nothing more than you inability to do the proper research to protect yourself from hardship.

This is no one's fault but your own. I hope you have learned your lesson.

[stolen dream]

McCg,
Whats up with you man, whats your purpose on this forum? I t seems you are here 24/7. From now on you don't exist as far as i'm concerned, so what ever you write i won't know about it because, I will just ignore you.

[McGillGrad]

McCg,
Whats up with you man, whats your purpose on this forum? I t seems you are here 24/7. From now on you don't exist as far as i'm concerned, so what ever you write i won't know about it because, I will just ignore you.

I was going to ask you the same question. What is the purpose of your presence on the forum 24/7 talking about things that happened 15 years ago that have nothing to do with Ross today?

Why is it that you can write as well as an American in only 15 years of English when it is evident that you barley spoke English when you started at Ross in 1991?

We all know that you are not telling the truth and you are just a current student that is upset at Ross and you are trying to slander Ross on this board to scare away new applicants.

[brob311]

McGill, bold statement, but valid.
I still think that she stole her biography from a novel.

[onelifetolive]

Guys...come on...how do you know whether his story is illegitimate? Come on people show some understanding here. As soon as some one starts saying negative things about a school everyone jumps on the person. We shouldn't just label Stolen_Dreams as another troll...

By the way Stolen_Dreams, please edit your biography and replace full names with abbrev. If you don't the mod will PM you to remove the names.

I believe this person's story is legitimate. But Mcgillgrad did bring up a good point....
1. Stolen_Dreams what is your purpose on this forum?
2. What do you want to accomplish?
3. Your unfortunate event happened many many years ago and why would you bring it up now?

Since you are new to this forum, just some words of wisdom. This is a highly opinionated forum and contains a mixture of truth and lies. For some personal reason, some ppl come by and stir controversy by putting lies and confuse many newfies. But at the same time, there are great ppl who share their experiences and give very useful advice and knowledge. It is very important to think twice before you put in something on this forum because ppl may take it the wrong way. I have learned that controversies should be very carefully worded. Everyone has their own opinions, some love their school some despise it. But the reasons why they love and hate is highly variable.

The first problem with your thread is the title. "Ross will never be fair." If you can, I would edit that because that is definitely not true. In effect, that shakes your credibility. I have an open mind and I am not judging you in anyway, but once again just becareful what you put on this forum. PM me if you have any other questions/concerns.

[vaneleus]

Guys...come on...how do you know whether his story is illegitimate? Come on people show some understanding here. We shouldn't just label Stolen_Dreams as another troll...

By the way Stolen_Dreams, please edit your biography and replace full names with abbrev. If you don't the mod will PM you to remove the names.

I believe this person's story is legitimate. But Mcgillgrad did bring up a point here...Stolen_Dreams what is your purpose on this forum? What do you want to accomplish? Your unfortunate event happened many many years ago.

I'm with brob311 and mcgillgrad. Too many inconsistencies and zero substantiation of the many allegations. I'm wishing I still had access to turnitin so I could run that story and see what pops out.

[jameslynton]

I'm with brob311 and mcgillgrad. Too many inconsistencies and zero substantiation of the many allegations. I'm wishing I still had access to turnitin so I could run that story and see what pops out. Add me to the list of Brob and McGill - I did close to that - vaneleus - taking different elements out of this story and found close wording to Encyclopedia Britannica description of the Nile, the so called Free University in Brussels is taught in either Dutch or Flemish the langage of Belgium. While French is used there - I would not count on it much. It is refered to by a different name check it out on the net - It is not refered to by that name used in the article. This is a work of fiction it has more holes than a rusty bucket at a red neck picnic. Meaning the bucket is used for target practice and will not hold water. This is a hoax - unless this person has legal brief numbers filed from superior courts, exact dates, names of his/her lawyer and such - I would not believe a word this person wrote. Also if a person was in legal procedings they would be barred by the Judge of the court and his/her legal counsel from doing what this person is doing now. :toiletgr:

[FoxTrot]

To all the people that have frequented this forum for awhile, he sounds like alot like a whiner that used to post here named Nasir, but was eventually banned.

Could be preppystud who probably still is bitter that he got kicked out but it somehow wasn't his fault.

Either way, they are both personal idols of Suktinder. haha

[jameslynton]

You just have to love this one - I know I did - the AMA is an association for Doctors by Doctors and does not reconize any medical schools. Also if you do a search on Sudanese Commission of Education on google you find it is the SUDANESE NATIONAL COMMISSION FOR EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND CULTURE They have nothing to do with medical education in Sudan. Use some logic here - I think Foxtrot is right this someone looking for kicks.

Look how silly the passage is -
Ross University did not meet the requisite standards of the Sudanese Commission of Education. The Sudanese Government discontinued funding my education after discovering that Ross University was not recognized by the American Medical Association,

Why would the AMA recognize any school? - They have the following mission statement - The American Medical Association helps doctors help patients by uniting physicians nationwide to work on the most important professional and public health issues. (From their website) - In other words they publish articles and lobby congress. They don't certifiy schools

[jim]

Singer, it was not a money issue the whole time. The money issue was resolved, but the dean of clinical sciences continued to impede my academic progress.
Jim, about the visa isuue, I was completely misled. I will elaborate on this later. Thanks and God bless


my ex-wife is colombian, so i have dealt with immmigration, much to my dismay. NUMBER ONE with immigration...its is NOBODY'S responisbility except the immigrant to do visa paperwork and filing. yes, they ask for supporting paperwork from schools, jobs, etc. but it is YOUR responsibility to do the visa, 100%.

all in all, this story sounds suspect. if it is true, its so far in the past, and so many ross owners in the past, that it is a moot point. my reference to statute of limitations was just that. read the statement again. if Ross had broken a law, which i am sure they did not, i am using this as an extreme example, it would not be punishable. in other words....its old news...move on with your life. there is also a statute for lawsuits which is even shorter then for criminal cases. you would not even be allowed to file for a lawsuit for this case. give it up and move on with your life.

[stolen dream]

brob311,
He is a 6 foot 4 tall man. His writing is not from a novel, but is a true reflection of a story of a true desert man ( some of you may like to call him a nilotic man, an arab man, or a true nubian man), who is highly motivated with laudable long range goals to return to Afrika to provide direct care to needy populations. He is the man that nursing staff found him easy to work with, and the supervising residents found him very dependable and interested in his cases. The physicians who attended with him found him to be likeable, responsible, hard working, sensitive to emotional illness and to the emotional aspects of physical illnesses, and that he has mastered the academic objectives outlined for medical students in a superior manner. The impression of other physicians who attended with him was that he did a distinctly above average job and that his fund of knowledge exceeded the medical students(who attended med schools in the USA) who were on the service with him at that time. He is comfortable with patients and as a result, the patients relate well to him. It is of note that the majority of patients in the Hospital where he rotated are middle to upper income patients and somewhat more demanding of the students and physicians who are working with them. on the other hand the dean of clinical science thought of him as less than a homosabien man and can easily sacrifice his dream for the existence of Ross University and its continuing effort of receiving federal funds. Another american medical student found it impossible to get into a plastic surgery surgery residency, while rotating with the desert man who had heavy accent but was impressing all the attending physicians and getting the unreachable highest score. What would you do when you lack the humanity, descency, morale, and soul to achieve your goal of becoming a plastic surgery resident?
Of course to sacrifice the desert man.

Jameslynton,
It is ULB, Universite libre de Bruxelles- www.ulb.ac.be (http://www.ulb.ac.be).

[stolen dream]

My way of telling my story is beyond the comprhension of some of you. God bless you.

[DrVinsk]

Dude,

It's AWESOME set of tools, not ULTIMATE!

[jameslynton]

My way of telling my story is beyond the comprhension of some of you. God bless you. ... You also forgot to add you came to earth in Smallville, Ka in a meteor shower in the above tome....Most people with distubed thoughts say others can't understand their story. That's a put down also to the readers. You are basically calling them dense.
Hummm and coming from someone so humble as you are - I wonder why you did not check the rules and regulations of say the AMA??? Just keep writing Stolen.... just realize your words don't add up ... whatever way you express it. The bucket does not hold water with me.

[stolen dream]

jameslynton,
Sorry, if you felt offended, but I was simply trying to say that based on my unique background and experience, some of you may not be able to relate to me.
I think I will stop from writing here for sometime. As you stated my thought may be disturbed. I think i feel down. i better go now, wish me luck if you have the heart to do so.

[brob311]

Dude,

It's AWESOME set of tools, not ULTIMATE!

Please look here to see that I am right and you are wrong....Sorry buddy!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083929/quotes

[brob311]

... You also forgot to add you came to earth in Smallville, Ka in a meteor shower in the above tome....

James, I believe that he was bit by a spider before became the God of the Nile.

[jameslynton]

James, I believe that he was bit by a spider before became the God of the Nile. Darn I missed that one too Bro. Sorry to spit in Stolen's soup his/her "unique background " is neither unique or extraordinary. I mean Clark Kent and Peter Parker and Stan lee have been doing it for years.
Actually I would say stolens background is most likely pretty ordinary. But hey Stolen keep on writing and best wishes.

[stolen dream]

Mr. kaya man,
I think you are smoking too much, and you don't make sense to me, but hey I think you are cool. Stay Rasta(=clean heart). After all its just herb.

[McGillGrad]

Mr. kaya man,
I think you are smoking too much, and you don't make sense to me, but hey I think you are cool. Stay Rasta(=clean heart). After all its just herb.

You are using far too many colloquialisms to be in the US for only 13 years.

You keep digging yourself into deeper and deeper holes.

[jameslynton]

He must have gone to the University of Weed and spent too much time on the beach a chill'n - Now he's a Rasta from Jamaican, making tall tales on VMD. Yeap - digging deeper in the hole of unbelievable...

[vaneleus]

He must have gone to the University of Weed and spent too much time on the beach a chill'n - Now he's a Rasta from Jamaican, making tall tales on VMD. Yeap - digging deeper in the hole of unbelievable...

Yeah. Truthfully, I didn't buy any of it from the first second I read it. A whole bunch of smoke and no fire. Every thing that followed simply verified my suspicions.

[brob311]

Yeah. A whole bunch of smoke and no fire.

Actually he needed fire from his lighter to smoke the crack needed to fabricate such a story

[hamboy]

I have heard a lot of good things about Ross and their high standards of medical education. In fact, I am looking into their program myself. Everything I have read about Ross in the posts by "stolen dream" contradict the Ross I have researched about and have come to know. Stolen Dream is nothing more than a bitter old man or old lady who has nothing better to do with his or her time than to come to this forum and badmouth Ross and its outstanding reputation. Stolen Dream is angry and bitter because he or she probably applied to Ross a long time ago and was rejected flat out. The whole life story this person has posted is nothing more than a long string of lies, falsehoods, fibs and fabrications. Your story is simply not true and the sooner you admit it, the more at peace you will be with yourself. No school would allow you to continue your education without paying tuition, regardless of the circumstances! Stolen Dream, you have a lot of growing up to do. You can start by finding yourself a very good shrink who likes a challenge...

[MDmargarita]

Going into a medical school is a previlage. You had the choice of not going to ROSS. It was your responsibility to do the proper research and decide to which school you would like to go. (If the Sudanese govnt dont accept ROSS or what not).

I am very sure, that ROSS University will not pinpoint a student, and start destroying his/her life. ROSS gives you the upportunity and a chance to pursue your dream and I strongly beileve in this. I do not know you,... your story is sad. But I do not see how ROSS is guilty in this whole thing?!

The school is been established and has a very good reputation. When I talk to my friends who are attending ROSS, they all tell me not to listen to any story that is aiming at bashing the school. ROSS is a great school... Everyone who I know attented school, or even people in the medical community (My uncles who are surgeons all and graduated from US schools, and two of my cousins who are doctors and graduated from the US schools all recommend ROSS as a very good school). And I am so looking forward to start classes very soon in Sept.

[queenofspades11]

from what i heard on this forum, getting a plastic surgery residency would be very, very difficult if not impossible coming from a caribbean school. Perhaps before entering a school to follow his dream someone should have done his reaseach.
that, again applies to other aspects of his story.

[hamboy]

This person is obviously a pathological liar and will go to extraordinary lengths to paint a dismal picture of Ross. Well, as a prospective applicant, I for one will not let this person's scare tactics get the best of me. It's as simple as that.

[phisigman03]

most of these comments should have been kept to yourselves. Maybe the story is true but maybe it is not but until you have walked in that person's shoes you don't need to be a critic. Listen, understand and sympathize it is what separates good physicians from bad ones.

[McGillGrad]

most of these comments should have been kept to yourselves. Maybe the story is true but maybe it is not but until you have walked in that person's shoes you don't need to be a critic. Listen, understand and sympathize it is what separates good physicians from bad ones.

Shoot me a PM. I have a lot of things to sell to you for really cheap!!:twisted:

[phisigman03]

Shoot me a PM. I have a lot of things to sell to you for really cheap!!:twisted:


my bad dawg I'm not quite understanding what you meant by selling for cheap

[DrVinsk]

He has some ocean front property in Arizona for you. He has some magic beans to sell to you. Get it? YOU'RE GULLIBLE. And in the wonderful words of Homer Simpson in response to Marge saying I just don't see why you can't be happy because you brought some other people some joy in their lives...........' Ohhhhh look at me, I'm in la-la land and I'm making people happy!'

[stolen dream]

During one of the microbiology lectrue the prof. stated that Malaria has higher fatalities than alot of other diseases combined. One american student who sat infront of me said "who care". I think some of Ross's students could't make it to US Med. schools because of what the interviewer sensed as lack of compassion. I will be gone for some time to gather wisdom. thanks and God bless ya all.
xxxxxxxxx

[stolen dream]

I think i'm ready now.

[stephew]

folks, stay or topic, refrain from flaming or this thread will be locked, warnings doled out.

[stolen dream]

Stephew,
Did I do anything wrong?

[stolen dream]

Where is azskeptic?

[brob311]

folks, stay or topic, refrain from flaming or this thread will be locked, warnings doled out.

Would you please lock it up so we don't have to read about it anymore?

[smashweasel]

Would you please lock it up so we don't have to read about it anymore?
I would second that motion, but Im afraid the original poster would only start a new thread in its place.

To the original poster. I have read your posts. If the original story is completely true, then it realy sucks. BUT, the facts seem to point to the fact that Ross did nothing wrong/unethical. The accepted your money(actually your home countries money) and provided you with an education up untill the point the tutition stopped being paid. That is EXACTLY what every other college/university in the world would do. Your grip seems to be with your home countrys education dept. I realy hope you can get over this and make your dreams come true another way.

[Genossa maximillian]

It seems that your case may not procede based on technicalities, like for example, statute of limitations. For what I understand, there has been more than 10 years since this happened and you were aware of it.

You bring up serious accusations that the school conspired with some members of the New York Office for Civil Rights (OCR) in the Department of Education, and the Education Commission for foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG), to achieve its goal in continuing to receive federal funds from the Department of Education, approval for clinical clerkships in New Jersey, and New York State Education Department’s approval to offer its full clinical program in New York. DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF OF THIS? REAL PROOF, not just that you heard about it, not just some information, do you have material witnesses, written proof, etc? If by discovery you in fact proved that your allegations were correct, how come your case was unsuccessful? Did you had adequate legal representation, or you will also say that your lawyer was bough out by Ross? (NO OFFESNE, BUT I HAVE HEARD THAT BEFORE)
WHAT CIVIL RIGHTS did the UNIVERSITY violated to you? Quite frankly, I can't see any.

Besides, you admit, that you were unable to pay tuition back then, because the Sudanese Commission of Education, who financed involvement in the program, changed its policy regarding the funding of the education of Sudanese students studying abroad. HOW IS THAT ROSS FAULT? I mean, if you don't pay tuition I don't see why you should gain any benefit from a school.

Governments change policy every now and then , take a look at the various licensing boards in the United States, in one state your school may be ok for you to get a license, one year later it is not. Ross is an OFFSHORE school, it is not an LCME school. Not their fault either.

I recommend you to hire a new lawyer and discuss this privately in order to explore your options if you want to continue to pursue this matter, that's what you should focus on and do.

[stolen dream]

genossa maximillian,
I will respond soon, Thanks.

[acgtacgtacgt]

I will come back and read it when I have time. However, for now I will say that I was surprised to find DeVry the owner of Ross. I know of DeVry well becuase their school (one of them) was in the area where I lived. It was a reputable school, but had one goal, to make money above all else. I have never seen anyone advertise as much as they did. This puts a perspective on Ross. Not a bad thing, but it helps me understand more about it.

The White Nile joins the Blue Nile in Khartoum, Sudan. From them, the Great Nile emerges, roaring towards the North. A few miles north is the city of Omdurman. This is where I was born and attended my first twelve years of public school. During my high school summer vacation, I chose to travel through the expanded lands of western and eastern Sudan, and to live and interact with the vast majority of the tribes inhabiting the area. Love and admiration and a lifelong interest in traveling and anthropology were what I brought upon returning to Omdurman. It was in my last year in high school that, desertification and famine were striking hard in western Sudan, killing, displacing and disrupting the tribes I had grown to love. My beloved people were forced to seek refuge on the Nile, a week’s journey on foot from their native land in the west. Refugee camps were set up around the city of Omdurman. Many fresh short graves were scattered around the camps. I witnessed some of the mothers who lost all their children along their miserable journey. My frustration at the sense of helplessness and inability to save those malnourished children was over whelming.
Doctors without Borders main offices were not far from my high school. They helped restore my hope for the tribes by providing immediate medical care, saving lives and educating local health care providers. I was enlightened, fascinated and inspired by the fact that they helped all people regardless of country, religion or race. Doctors without Borders became the main focus of my life. Throughout my childhood a Chinese missionary doctor treated me. The memory of his compassion coming through his broken Arabic stays with me vividly to this day. Since then international humanitarian medicine became a cause I wanted to be a part of.
Before my seventeenth birthday, I left Sudan with two goals in mind, which were and still are to become a caring international medical doctor and eventually to join Doctors without Borders. I traveled from Sudan to Belgium. There I found the French language to be challenging however since most Doctors without Borders spoke it I found my self immersed and quickly adapted. I completed one year of French language and one academic year of pre-medical sciences at the Free University of Brussels, before the harsh weather exacerbated my asthma and the unfamiliarity and difficulty of the French system forced me to leave Belgium for Washington D.C. There I completed one academic year of pre-medical sciences at the University of the District of Columbia. While at the University of the District of Columbia, I discovered through an advertisement that there was a medical school in the island of Dominica, West Indies, called Ross University School of medicine that was recognized by the world Health organization (WHO). The advertisement further stated that the school has clinical training in teaching hospitals in the United States, United Kingdom, and the West Indies. I will never forget the thrill of my expectation to complete my basic medical science curriculum in Dominica, rotate in American teaching hospitals, complete a three month rotation of tropical medicine at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical medicine, and then join Doctors without Borders. I applied to Ross University and was persuaded not to complete my undergraduate courses, because I could get accepted to the school based on the criteria of acceptance to medical schools in my home country. (A basic criterion of acceptance to Sudanese medical schools is finishing high school. Then you get enrolled in a six-year medical program in which “the first two years is the pre-medical curriculum”). During my interview I expressed my concerns about the status of my F-1 student Visa if I left the United States to attend an offshore school. My interviewer promised me that upon successful completion of my basic medical curriculum I would be granted a business Visa that would allow me to return to the United States to complete my clinical trainings at teaching hospitals. In May 1991, Ross University accepted me to enroll as a student in the semester beginning July 1991. My acceptance was based on the criteria of acceptance to medical school in Sudan.
Between1989 to 1991 Ross University accepted a number of international students into its medical school directly from high school, but the school did not have any pre-medical or English language preparatory programs. The international students were placed in an intensive medical program with American and Canadian students who held bachelor degrees or higher qualifications. Ninety- eight percent of the international students failed from the first semester as could be expected. The desperate young students were stuck in the island of Dominica; thousands of miles away from their homeland, unable to get the money they had spent to attend the school. Unfortunately, the majority of the international students were from Bangladesh, one of the world’s poorest country, and on desperate need of medical doctors. My compelling reason to include the international students in this matter is to show the similarity of our acceptance policy to the school and to voice that “our fate was the same.
When I arrived on the island of Dominica, its landscape and the smell of the tropic immediately took me. Soon I realized the politics of matriculation at a foreign medical school. Because I did not intend to practice medicine in the United States, and was already in love with the island and its people, I thought it would not bother me. I successfully completed my pre-clinical course curriculum in the four semesters, which was the time allotted. The school breached its promise in providing me with a business Visa as I was promised in my interview, as an immediate result of not obtaining my Visa I was unable to return to the United States or to Sudan for two months. This caused me tremendous pain and anguish. Ross University justified its inability to secure me a business Visa due to my inability to pay tuition at that time. I was unable to pay my tuition back then, because the Sudanese Commission of Education, who financed my involvement in the program, changed its policy regarding the funding of the education of Sudanese students studying abroad. Ross University did not meet the requisite standards of the Sudanese Commission of Education. The Sudanese Government discontinued funding my education after discovering that Ross University was not recognized by the American Medical Association, and its official letterhead was misleading to the effect that the Sudanese Government thought the School was located in New York City. The dean of the basic medical science in Dominica acknowledged that I was in the verge of becoming homeless and almost starving to death. Therefore he assisted me in getting a tourist Visa and told me that the school would assist me in getting a business Visa as soon as I started my clinical rotation. Finally, I returned to the United States, but soon I discovered that the school was not and would never be able to assist me in getting any type of Visa, because the school is considered by the Immigration and Naturalization Service as a foreign school and can not sponsor its foreign students to come to the United States and engage in any kind of education. Accordingly my life became very difficult in the United States.
I was in contact with the school on a regular basis to allow me to continue my education. Finally, the school agreed to let me continue my education without paying any tuition, but only under the condition that I locate my own clinical training sites. During that period of time the school had a very limited number of clinical training sites, which inversely correlated with the high number of students accepted to its program. The school mainly depended upon its students in expanding its affiliation with hospitals. After a tremendous effort, I was able to locate Prince George’s Hospital Center, a teaching institute in Cheverly, Maryland where I completed radiology elective with a grade of honors. While in my radiology rotation I established a good reputation and the chief of trauma surgery at the same hospital promised me that as soon as I completed my radiology rotation I could start surgery rotation with him. The school accepted that, but after completing seven weeks and four days (my grade was honors), the school forced me to stop, and immediately claimed the surgery department, and began to place its students in it in a regular basis. At that time I was able to pay my tuition, but the school continued to impede my progress in my medical education. I was consistently advised by the school to do my clinical trainings at non- teaching hospitals in Chicago, Illinois, but knowing the importance of doing my clinical training at teaching hospitals, I strongly refused. The school did not provide me with any clinical clerkship, except for a psychiatry rotation in Kansas City, Missouri, under the condition that I give up my opportunities of doing my rotations in pediatrics and obstetrics and gynecology in New York City. The dean of clinical sciences promised me that if I went to Kansas City and did psychiatry, I would be placed in a twelve weeks rotation in internal medicine in Jamaica hospital in New York. I knew the school needed to place some other students in my pediatrics and obstetrics and gynecology rotations in New York City and many students did not like to go to the Midwest for rotations. I accepted to go to Kansas City and do my psychiatry rotation for three reasons. Firstly, the school had a very limited number of hospitals where you could do the internal medicine core, and, secondly, there were many students who had finished their basic sciences and were waiting for clinical trainings placement. Finally, there was the thrill and excitement of discovering a new place. I completed my psychiatry rotation and my evaluation was superior. The dean of clinical sciences breached its promise in not providing me with the internal medicine core, pediatrics, and obstetrics and gynecology rotations. Again after a tremendous effort with the school I was allowed to complete a Pediatrics rotation at Prince George’s hospital and my grade was a pass.
The school continued to impede my progress in my education, and I was frustrated to see my classmates and many students from classes behind me rotating to hospitals where I was denied the same opportunity on many different occasions. I knew I had only one option and that was to locate hospitals where the school would see the possibility in sending its students. I went back to Kansas City, Missouri and began an intensive search for such hospitals, and finally I was able to locate Saint Luke’s Hospital, which is a primary teaching hospital of the University of Missouri - Kansas City School of Medicine. There I completed internal medicine core, with an elective in cardiology and research in cardiology at the nationally known Mid-America Heart Institute, general surgery, and thoracic surgery. My evaluation was honors in all my rotations at Saint Luke’s, except for a pass in thoracic surgery. I was welcomed to do my residency at their program.
During my rotation at Saint Luke’s Hospital, Ross University stopped me again from finishing my surgery rotation. Accordingly, the program’s associate dean, Dr. xxxxxxxxxxx wrote Ross University informing them about my distinctly above average job, and that my fund of knowledge exceeded that of the medical students who were on the service with me at that time. He further stated that because of their experience with me, they would be open to accept students from Ross University on the medicine services. I also wrote Ross University explaining to them the unfair treatment I had endured. Ross University did not respond to me or to Dr. Hall. The next thing I heard from them was my dismissal letter.
Throughmonths of intensive research, I came to the conclusion that Ross University dismissed me because my acceptance was based on the criteria of acceptance to Sudanese medical school, and I was the last one of the international students who made it that far. When the Department of Education’s National Commission for Medical Education and Accreditation was formed in 1994, U.S Secretary of Education Richard W. Riley underscore its role in assuring that federal students loans would “only go to foreign medical schools that provide a high quality education to its students.” Ross University definitely was not one of the schools that provide a high quality of education, but the school wanted badly to be one of them, so it could continue defrauding the U.S Government in getting millions of dollars in federal funds through the acceptance of high number of unqualified students to its program, and then get rid of them, or expect that many of them would not be able to make it far. The school conspired with some members of the New York Office for Civil Rights (OCR) in the Department of Education, and the Education Commission for foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG), to achieve its goal in continuing to receive federal funds from the Department of Education, approval for clinical clerkships in New Jersey, and New York State Education Department’s approval to offer its full clinical program in New York. Ross University outrageously violated my civil rights on many different occasions and my dismissal was fraudulent. Through my litigation against the school, I was able to obtain some documentation and information that support my allegation against the school, the OCR in New York and ECFMG. The school continued to abuse me and violate my civil rights and make it impossible for me to pursue with my legal case. I dedicated my life for medicine, and to expose Ross University and its wrongdoing. I am aware of what you stand for and your involvement in the international medicine. I believe I have strong foundation in medicine and great initiative in research, and my experience with Ross University acquired me a different dimension of intelligence, and reality. I strongly miss the art of healing people, and I want to experience it again. After my dismissal, I went through stages of denial, anger, and frustration, but finally I was able to get my self together. I was fortunate to explore the area of electrophisyology of plants, molecular biology, and medicinal plants at North Carolina State University. I also completed seventy-two credit hours of sciences at ....... I am longing for the day that I will be part of your team, and I hope you will consider my complex biography, as a cry for help.
Thank you for your consideration. I remain yours truly,

[stolen dream]

*** Duplicate post. Original here (http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/112589-ross-will-never-fair.html#post448362).***

[stolen dream]

I don't see my last post, what's the problem?

[stolen dream]

Dru,
what went wrong with my last post?

[Dru]

Stolen Dream,
If you are referring to the post of 6/7/l06 at 3:03 p.m., it says it was edited by DOC, not DRU. The reason that he indicated was "duplication".

[Doc]

Dru is correct. I re-edited it again so that it is more clear. I also inserted the link to the original post with the original text.

In the future, it might be better for you to simply link to the original post rather than re-posting all of the original text (which was already provided in this same thread several times, including in the post immediately prior to the one in question).

[stolen dream]

doc,
It wasn't all duplicate there was my personal statement and a message with it. Did you just delete the whole thing?.

[xio]

McGill....

I don't know if this person is saying the truth or not...But you have no reason to be so mean...I am a an Merican born in foreign land so I have never had paper or visa issues. I do have TONS of awesome friend who have had many problms that NONE of you could possibly relate to. Some great people do have awfully hard time w/ these issues. Just because you were lucky and blessed to be born in the "right" place doesnt give you the right to diminish someone soooo much.

I have lived in Boston for 7 years and I know what "staying rasta" means...Or stop soking weed...It deosn't really take a rocket scientist to know these things...

I am on no one's side...But I always think that if you don't have anything nice to say just keep it to yourself or if you (all of you) think all of what he says is **, why do you keep answering and posting...what are you trying to prove? If no one answered to the nonsense or the "story" or the the "stolen dream" this threat would have died already...

[stolen dream]

How come Doc not answering. Someone erased my thread and it has to be Doc or Dru. I don't understand, is this forum belong to Ross or what? it seems like no one on this forum want any thing negative about Ross. Or maybe you want me just to put all my info. about Ross here. Dru tell me where is my thread? Thanks and God Bless.

[Doc]

How come Doc not answering. Someone erased my thread and it has to be Doc or Dru. I don't understand, is this forum belong to Ross or what? it seems like no one on this forum want any thing negative about Ross. Or maybe you want me just to put all my info. about Ross here. Dru tell me where is my thread? Thanks and God Bless.

Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but I don't normally read every post on this board. The best way to contact me is via PM.

Anyways, as I indicated earlier, the post was originally removed because it was a duplicate of a previous post. When you questioned the removal of the post, I reactivated the post, but replaced the original text with a link to the original post containing the original text.

If your claim about the new post containing new info is true (I didn't notice any difference), feel free to repost it.

[1MD2Be]

Ahh the litigation happy that our society has become....sue anyone for anything...that seems to be the answer to every problem....real or not..