Please help: FMS vs DO?

[Levi]

Hi Everyone,
I greatly enjoy reading all the info out there, you guys are awesome! I am hoping for some help here. I have been accepted to St. Matthew's, should hear from Saba this week and am interviewing with SGU soon. I have done quite a bit of research on the schools, but have not visited any of them. Can you give me some insider pros and cons?

Did any of you consider D.O. schools? The only ones that are still accepting apps are Touro, CA, Touro, NV and Western in CA. From what I have read, there are quite a few negative things out there for these schools, usually about the facilities or the locations. The only reason I am considering these D.O. schools is because I could potentially get a military health professional scholarship to them and I really want to be in the military.

What in the heck do I do?:confused:

[Scott1981]

if you really want to be in the military and would ultimately wind up there with a md from the carib, then why not have them pay for your schooling at the DO?

las vegas cant be all that bad.... can it?

[LastDance]

i agree with scott!! go to D.O if you get in!!

[Levi]

It would be great to have that taken care of and it starts my career 10 years earlier. (The normal way if going foreign is having to wait two years after residency in order to apply to the military) I am just not crazy about the idea of a D.O although I am warming up to it. I know in my head it is all the same stuff as an M.D., but this is a new consideration for me. The other part is to hope that the military really needs doctors and they take me early and pick up my loans. :)
Any advice on any of the schools?

[abrown15]

sorry not to sound dumb, but what exactly is a d.o school?

[Levi]

You're not dumb, great question. D.O. is Doctor of osteopathy. Same as MD except they take into consideration the body as a whole and do a lot of work with trying to prevent stuff before it happens, encouraging a healthy lifestyle, for example. DO's can still prescribe meds, do surgeries, etc.

www.aacom.org

[DominusMedicus]

Why are you asking other people to make decisions in your life? That should be the first question you should be asking yourself.

I suggest DO, then SGU/AUC/Ross/Saba

Forget about SMU

[abrown15]

oh, okay do they get paid the same as well? and how are their practices based? is there like a special hospital for all of the d.o docs? or does an informed patient have to specifically request that her doc be a d.o doc? sorry, this is really interesting and would like to know they "system" .
thanks,

[abrown15]

damn,, dom, last i thought these forums were for ADVICE! ***. don't have to be so mean :0

[DominusMedicus]

oh, okay do they get paid the same as well? and how are their practices based? is there like a special hospital for all of the d.o docs? or does an informed patient have to specifically request that her doc be a d.o doc? sorry, this is really interesting and would like to know they "system" .
thanks,

All your wonderfully humdrum questions will be answered by the link provided above.

[Levi]

I'm not asking someone to make decisions in my life, I was asking for people's personal experiences in their life related to foreign med school experiences at the particular schools vs. D.O. schools. I've not been to see any of the FMS so I was asking for help so that I could make an educated decision. Don't bother posting if you can't be helpful.

[DominusMedicus]

damn,, dom, last i thought these forums were for ADVICE! ***. don't have to be so mean :0

Here's some advice. Speak when spoken to.

[abrown15]

why is d.o perfered over the carib schools dom?

[DominusMedicus]

Don't bother posting if you can't be helpful.

Unles your name is Jebus or GODzilla, you ain't da boss of me!

[abrown15]

wow!! you are a jerk!!! pull that stick out you butt! lol..

[DominusMedicus]

why is d.o perfered over the carib schools dom?

DO's can apply to all MD residencies (pretty much) and do not have to go through the extra ECFMG hassle.

[abrown15]

bad day huh? i am sorry for you . TAKE IT EASY.

[DominusMedicus]

wow!! you are a jerk!!! pull that stick out you butt! lol..

I would but you I am too busy answering your questions.

[Levi]

Now that is helpful, thank you. What is your personal experience with any of this? Why is SGU better than Saba in your opinion?

[DominusMedicus]

bad day huh? i am sorry for you . TAKE IT EASY.

One thing that the internet cannot convey is sarcasm and a smirk....lol

[abrown15]

oh, okay i see thanks. U R VERY HELPFUL! YEAAAAAAA.

[DominusMedicus]

Now that is helpful, thank you. What is your personal experience with any of this? Why is SGU better than Saba in your opinion?

SGU has a more organized system of student educational assistance and all ACGME approved US rotations. It also has a record of students with more competitive residency placements. Saba is great in that it has a theoretical 50 state approval and small classes, but it has its issues with facilities and rotations.

[abrown15]

i am not being sarcastic..... anyway what school do you go to dom, have you though about uag in mexico? i am thinking about that school but keep gettin mixed messages. have any dirt or words of wisdom? what about you levi? where are you looking at?

[Levi]

PEOPLE! Trying to make critical decision here...have you visited/attended/gone through all the crap of either foreign or DO? Saba and SGU would be my top choices over SMU due to the lack of CA approval. Saba is cheaper and has KAPLAN classes for USMLE, I am still learning about SGU...anyone? Did anyone consider going DO before going foreign and if they did, what did they decide and why?

[abrown15]

saba does no require the mcat!

[Levi]

what's the rotation problem? I heard Saba guarantees placement upon passing Step 1. Also, SGU does look to have a much broader student network with intramurals for example.

[ThePheonix]

what's the rotation problem? I heard Saba guarantees placement upon passing Step 1. Also, SGU does look to have a much broader student network with intramurals for example.

The rotation problem consists of waiting a long time for greenbook rotations, that allow you to avoid problems with licensure in the future.

You can get a rotations, but it is not necesarily ACGME approved.

[ThePheonix]

PEOPLE! Trying to make critical decision here...have you visited/attended/gone through all the crap of either foreign or DO? Saba and SGU would be my top choices over SMU due to the lack of CA approval. Saba is cheaper and has KAPLAN classes for USMLE, I am still learning about SGU...anyone? Did anyone consider going DO before going foreign and if they did, what did they decide and why?

I know of one guy who was packed and ready to go to the Carib when he got his DO acceptance and went there without a second throught.

You are making things harder by going to the Carib. Just as simple as that.

[Scott1981]

It would be great to have that taken care of and it starts my career 10 years earlier. (The normal way if going foreign is having to wait two years after residency in order to apply to the military) I am just not crazy about the idea of a D.O although I am warming up to it. I know in my head it is all the same stuff as an M.D., but this is a new consideration for me. The other part is to hope that the military really needs doctors and they take me early and pick up my loans. :)
Any advice on any of the schools?

if you go DO, the military will come during orientation and throw some great pizza parties :cool:

im suggesting DO only for the circumstances you gave. ive also suggested carib for others people under other circumstances. if you search the forums and type in "DO vs carib", or "DO" you should find many threads covering this....... some are very flamboyant.

however, ultimately you should be at an info gathering stage at this point and tabulate all the pros and cons since this is a decesion that will effect the rest of your life. in reality, you should take all suggestions (mine included) with a grain of salt. just get all the facts and info that you can from various sources and make a decesion that you alone will be happy with.

good luck

[Scott1981]

I know of one guy who was packed and ready to go to the Carib when he got his DO acceptance and went there without a second throught.

You are making things harder by going to the Carib. Just as simple as that.

actually, it isnt as simple as that. there are many pros and cons with DO just like there are with the carib.

[ThePheonix]

actually, it isnt as simple as that. there are many pros and cons with DO just like there are with the carib.

Actually it is that simple.

[Scott1981]

Actually it is that simple.

ill attempt to stop the pheonix :p

an example of a problem that can arise for DO is that WV, PA, MI, OK and FL require DOs to do a 1 year internship before starting residency if they want a liscense there. so that adds a year till you can get out and practice.

but, in the OPs case, the VA wouldnt require this. like i said, different circumstances lead to different choices.

[ThePheonix]

ill attempt to stop the pheonix :p

an example of a problem that can arise for DO is that WV, PA, MI, OK and FL require DOs to do a 1 year internship before starting residency if they want a liscense there. so that adds a year till you can get out and practice.

but, in the OPs case, the VA wouldnt require this. like i said, different circumstances lead to different choices.

I did not know that. That does make things much more interesting in the DO vs Carib debate.

[Drjm]

DO or MD, get over the initials after your name. Go DO in my opinion if you can. Why, simply because you are a US graduate Physician and have eliminated all the probelms with being an IMG. You have as you choice all the residencies that you can qualify for and don't have to deal with the ECFMG steps. Always in my opinion if you can get in a US MD or DO school, take that route first. If not then go foreign.

[ed gee]

It is quite easy for a DO to get an ACGME PG-1 accepted as an osteopathic internship by the AOA. DOs in our program in Pennsylvania have never had an application denied. The extra year is a non-issue.

BTW, there is an interesting article on a DO in the latest Newsweek...he even made the cover.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11787394/site/newsweek/
Dr Jadick is a graduate of the New York College of Osteopathic Medicine, irrespective of the cover error.


ill attempt to stop the pheonix :p

an example of a problem that can arise for DO is that WV, PA, MI, OK and FL require DOs to do a 1 year internship before starting residency if they want a liscense there. so that adds a year till you can get out and practice.

but, in the OPs case, the VA wouldnt require this. like i said, different circumstances lead to different choices.

[ol' man]

ill attempt to stop the pheonix :p

Must have worked. The phoenix is BANNED!

[Atrain97]

Scott I agree with you more and more everyday. But if I can give you my two cents I did interview at Nova Southeastern and LECOM. I was faced with this very decision. It wasn't hard because they made it for me. By not accepting me. I would have gone in a heartbeat. There is a stigma still attached to D.O.'s nevertheless. They used to have their own hospitals because M.D.'s would pick them. Now they are pretty much the same which is actually kind of sad because instead of staying true to their philosophy alot of them are just advertising as easier to get into but the same. The point is most people will feel better walking into an M.D. office because it is more known. However, the road to becoming a practicing physician is easier for a D.O. than a IMG. I was told to apply earlier next time or re-take the MCAT and then maybe. The prospect of a then maybe in 4 more months and a sure thing as an IMG made it a no brainer for me.

Oh if you want some good info on this there is a book called "The D.O.'s" on amazon. I bought it and read it. It gives you the whole history and philosophy check it out.

[Scott1981]

Scott I agree with you more and more everyday. But if I can give you my two cents I did interview at Nova Southeastern and LECOM. I was faced with this very decision. It wasn't hard because they made it for me. By not accepting me. I would have gone in a heartbeat. There is a stigma still attached to D.O.'s nevertheless. They used to have their own hospitals because M.D.'s would pick them. Now they are pretty much the same which is actually kind of sad because instead of staying true to their philosophy alot of them are just advertising as easier to get into but the same. The point is most people will feel better walking into an M.D. office because it is more known. However, the road to becoming a practicing physician is easier for a D.O. than a IMG. I was told to apply earlier next time or re-take the MCAT and then maybe. The prospect of a then maybe in 4 more months and a sure thing as an IMG made it a no brainer for me.


Oh if you want some good info on this there is a book called "The D.O.'s" on amazon. I bought it and read it. It gives you the whole history and philosophy check it out.

2.5 years back, i was a student at a DO program. if you would like to read my history, do a search and you will see many posts i made on the subject.

[Scott1981]

It is quite easy for a DO to get an ACGME PG-1 accepted as an osteopathic internship by the AOA. DOs in our program in Pennsylvania have never had an application denied. The extra year is a non-issue.

BTW, there is an interesting article on a DO in the latest Newsweek...he even made the cover.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11787394/site/newsweek/
Dr Jadick is a graduate of the New York College of Osteopathic Medicine, irrespective of the cover error.

the way i was told by some florida hospital DOs, the resolution 42 is getting harder and harder to get. i was informed that a big factor in the approval is if there were no internships available in the region you did residency at.

im searching some info to back up what was told to me by some DOs, this is a start.... talks about the same thing i was told although not in its exact form.

discussion on topic by DO students--http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=261101&page=1

discussion on topic by DO students--http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=261100


florida requirement for year internship of waiver (resolution 42 discussed and quoted in above sdn threads...... also showing that it is getting harder to get) http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/osteopath/os_lic_req_exam.htm

excellent article summing up internal DO struggle and once again highlighting that the waiver is not as simple to get as some suggest http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/104/6/230

ed gee, i respect you opinion highly since you seem to have exposure to the DO profession as well. can you please post links to back up your claim that this waiver is very "simple" to obtain? all my research shows that this is not the case.

all in all, this just shows that there are hurdles to be jumped being a DO in some states too. not a smooth sailing ride in a few states.

im gonna be away for the weekend, but im looking forward to reading your response when i get back.

[PAPADOC2B]

Hey guys!
I know it's been discussed ad nauseum. But I'm not that young (mid thirties), got family (wife and a kid). If I go to Carib (SMU or SABA) they won't be able to go with me, but I can visit. But I'll probably go crazy without them. I've been in allied health (RN) for almost 17 years, so clinical experience is no problem. My prereqs are good enough for SMU and SABA, but it's from alnost 20 years ago. I never took MCAT, and no
ORGO II (got one semester of biochem instead). I'm pretty sure US schools won't even look at my app before I take MCAT, and re-take pre-reqs. And the only realistic posibility of US schools is DO route for 2007. I'm a bit too old for US allo. I could be at SMU this May. The thought of going solo is daunting. The medical school is quite stressful without being worried about things which would be beyond my control (my family, and aging parents). But MCAT seems like a monster at this time, and has really very little to do with USMLE. So, I'll have to spend another year trying to get in for 2007, when I should turn 37 :shock: .On the other hand, if I went Carib, and even passed everything on time, I could be still slowed down just waiting for "green" rotations in places I could be close to home (I can't handle being away for all 4 years :( ). I don't want to bore you guys with my personal stuff.But what would you do in this situation?

Thanks

[ChanceCount]

Hey guys!
I know it's been discussed ad nauseum. But I'm not that young (mid thirties), got family (wife and a kid). If I go to Carib (SMU or SABA) they won't be able to go with me, but I can visit. But I'll probably go crazy without them. I've been in allied health (RN) for almost 17 years, so clinical experience is no problem. My prereqs are good enough for SMU and SABA, but it's from alnost 20 years ago. I never took MCAT, and no
ORGO II (got one semester of biochem instead). I'm pretty sure US schools won't even look at my app before I take MCAT, and re-take pre-reqs. And the only realistic posibility of US schools is DO route for 2007. I'm a bit too old for US allo. I could be at SMU this May. The thought of going solo is daunting. The medical school is quite stressful without being worried about things which would be beyond my control (my family, and aging parents). But MCAT seems like a monster at this time, and has really very little to do with USMLE. So, I'll have to spend another year trying to get in for 2007, when I should turn 37 :shock: .On the other hand, if I went Carib, and even passed everything on time, I could be still slowed down just waiting for "green" rotations in places I could be close to home (I can't handle being away for all 4 years :( ). I don't want to bore you guys with my personal stuff.But what would you do in this situation?

Thanks

I'm not trying to discourage you, but you might consider taking some prereqs or some type of postbaccalaureate program anyways and possibly take the mcat and go to a school like Ross, where you would only spend four semesters in the Caribbean. I have a friend who has taken some of the prereqs in 1996 and is in med school now, and he says a lot has changed since then. Having taken the prereqs 20 years ago, I can only imagine the vast number of advances that have been made.

The pace of medical school is extremely fast. If you have to add to it by learning things that they assume everyone already knows, it can be a daunting task.

Rather than worrying about the timetable, it would be more important to make sure you make it through.

[PAPADOC2B]

I'm not trying to discourage you, but you might consider taking some prereqs or some type of postbaccalaureate program anyways and possibly take the mcat and go to a school like Ross, where you would only spend four semesters in the Caribbean. I have a friend who has taken some of the prereqs in 1996 and is in med school now, and he says a lot has changed since then. Having taken the prereqs 20 years ago, I can only imagine the vast number of advances that have been made.

The pace of medical school is extremely fast. If you have to add to it by learning things that they assume everyone already knows, it can be a daunting task.

Rather than worrying about the timetable, it would be more important to make sure you make it through.
Thanks ChanceCount. I actually did go to ROSS back in May 2004. You are absolutely right. It was too much, in addition to being on Dominica:rolleyes: without my family it prooved to be way more than I bargained for.
But I think going away without my family will not be very successful task, even if I brushed up on some undegrad stuff. I think I have pretty good shot at D.O schools, because of other wise vest clinical experience.

Thanks

[Levi]

Hey PapaDoc,
I have a friend that sounds like you that went to SMU and it worked for him. He is married with two little ones and they tried to move out to SMU, but it was too expensive. He did the MD/MPH program which got him off the island in one year instead of two. (The MPH part I guess is in Maine). I don't know how the MPH program would fit into what you want, but it is worth checking out. You can't practice in CA initially though if you go to SMU. Good luck.

[PAPADOC2B]

Hey PapaDoc,
I have a friend that sounds like you that went to SMU and it worked for him. He is married with two little ones and they tried to move out to SMU, but it was too expensive. He did the MD/MPH program which got him off the island in one year instead of two. (The MPH part I guess is in Maine). I don't know how the MPH program would fit into what you want, but it is worth checking out. You can't practice in CA initially though if you go to SMU. Good luck.

Hey Levi!
I didn't mean to hijack your thread:lol: I have my acceptance to SMU for May. But the problem is they are phasing out this MD/MHSA deal in Maine. This May is the last semester when one can return to the States after 3 semesters. But Cayman is sooooo expensive, when coupled with
private 8% loans =:shock: :banghead: :omg: :scared: few years down the road (could be like half a mill in debt). I think I just ought to try in U.S. ROSS didn't work out a couple of years back, and I gave up my acceptance to SABA. I think Carib will always be there, but if I could make my way to NYCOM or LECOM in PA I'd be a happy
camper.:D l
BTW what have you decided? US D.O or Carib?
Godd Luck

[AYLW]

1 word: DO

[Levi]

Hey PapaDoc,
No worries, thanks for jumping on the thread. :D So, May is the last chance of starting the program, or that is when it finishes? It sounds like you have considered it all and with a family and your desires, DO may be the way to go for you.

I have not decided yet, I also don't have any interviews for DO yet. :cool: It could be late in the game, but I wanted to consider all options. So I am forking over another few hundred dollars so these DO schools can get a look at my app. I got my acceptance to SMU and SABA and interview with SGU very soon. My only thing about SMU is the CA issue, which is important since it's my home. I'm all about travel, but I don't want to eliminate the potential to practice at home.

It sounds like DO eliminates a lot of the IMG hassle and whatever. Bottom line, what everyone says is true, you get out what you put in. I will let you know how SGU goes and if DO schools contact me. G'luck!

[Levi]

Hey AYLW...are you DO-bound or regretful IMG? what's up?

[PAPADOC2B]

Hey PapaDoc,
No worries, thanks for jumping on the thread. :D So, May is the last chance of starting the program, or that is when it finishes? It sounds like you have considered it all and with a family and your desires, DO may be the way to go for you.

I have not decided yet, I also don't have any interviews for DO yet. :cool: It could be late in the game, but I wanted to consider all options. So I am forking over another few hundred dollars so these DO schools can get a look at my app. I got my acceptance to SMU and SABA and interview with SGU very soon. My only thing about SMU is the CA issue, which is important since it's my home. I'm all about travel, but I don't want to eliminate the potential to practice at home.

It sounds like DO eliminates a lot of the IMG hassle and whatever. Bottom line, what everyone says is true, you get out what you put in. I will let you know how SGU goes and if DO schools contact me. G'luck!

Hey Levi!
Yep, May'06 is the last semester for SMU students to enroll into the dual degree program. That's per St.Joseph college of Maine through wich MHSA degree is obtained. But they already started to work on similar deal in Michigan. And that's where lots of their rotations are planned to be. No question that SMU is becoming a major player in the Carib med school game. But Cali is abig downer. It would be better for them not to even apply for Cali approval, than to be disaproved and being placed on the famous "exriment" list:p . I'd say if you have to go Carib SABA will give you the most bang for a buck. And they seem to have good rotations, and residency placements. SGU as always takes the cake. But the $$$$$$$$$$$ is depressing. However good and well known it is...it's still an IMG MD. My fear is MCAT. I've never taken one, but otherwise my app will look good for the DO ad coms. I don't think I stand a chance with US allopathic schools. They don' care much about past experiences in health field. So if you can pull DO...it's worth evey little bit of it. It's not silly MD vs DO crap, it's foreign vs U.S degree and the opportunities or the lack there of it affords. AYLW is right..go DO :D

[Levi]

Hey PapaDoc, so it is too close to get into the May class for SMU for you? Any idea of when Michigan MPH would start? Would you consider that? The CA thing does stink, but rumor has it it was more of a personal thing between the head of SMU and the head of the CA board (according to friend who is at SMU). He still recommends the school though, but knows for me it prob would not be a good fit.

Yup, MCAT ranks right up there in the Top Ten Things that Suck the Worst. I took Kaplan review which was amazing in helping my score, but have no desire to retake it.

So you and the others still think D.O. Hmmm...I don't know. I guess I already had turned my thinking into spending two years in the Caribbean before I even remembered about DO. Hard to want to hang out in nowhere town, CA or NV. :-) But, I do like the idea of staying close to home. But, I love to TRAVEL too! However it works out, will be just fine, I know. :):-smiley7

[PAPADOC2B]

Hey PapaDoc, so it is too close to get into the May class for SMU for you? Any idea of when Michigan MPH would start? Would you consider that? The CA thing does stink, but rumor has it it was more of a personal thing between the head of SMU and the head of the CA board (according to friend who is at SMU). He still recommends the school though, but knows for me it prob would not be a good fit.

Yup, MCAT ranks right up there in the Top Ten Things that Suck the Worst. I took Kaplan review which was amazing in helping my score, but have no desire to retake it.

So you and the others still think D.O. Hmmm...I don't know. I guess I already had turned my thinking into spending two years in the Caribbean before I even remembered about DO. Hard to want to hang out in nowhere town, CA or NV. :-) But, I do like the idea of staying close to home. But, I love to TRAVEL too! However it works out, will be just fine, I know. :):-smiley7
Well, I've been accepted to SMU for a while, but deffered before. It doesn't take a long time for me to pack up, but something is holding me back. May be because of my unsuccessful try at ROSS. I realized it's not only academic for me. My family visited me on Dominica during my daughter's summer break at her school. They didn't say anything, but it was torture for them. Because I could not spend any meaningful time with them, I felt really guilty. The only reason they came to that Hellhole is to be with me. I really found it hard to concentrate when they were by themselves on the island with nothing to do. Or they called, and told me something about some problem at home, or some good thing. My mind went all over the place, but not studdying. Could be ADD :p. Another thing that bothered me a lot was being guilty by association...All ppl who I met at ROSS told me they've tried U.S, but I never did. Some said that they could've gone DO, but wanted to have MD after their name :rolleyes: . I could not think of a more ideotic reason to put yourself through the hell of the
3rd World, and still be a foreign grad. Quite frankly, this MD vs DO thing mostly exists on the forums like these, or between some premeds that have way more time on their hand than they should. I do not know of ANY medical specialty which DO is not a part of. Sure some things are more difficult than others, but very, very attainable. So I don't thing that Carib should be my first option. Other than not having MCAT yet, my application is stellar, esp being licensed in two separate health fields for over 15 years now. SMU is a great, but still an alternative option. And that private school loans with huge % scare the crap out me. With more DO schools opening up in the next decate things may get even tighter for the IMG/FMG crowd. I just don't want to leave some deep teeth marks on my **** few years down the road with Icould've I should've :p :oops: .But I don't want to tell you the wrong thing. If you made the decision to go, then go. Don't listen to what ppl say (myself included). I already tried Сaribbean, got kicked inthe "groin", and got the messege. I must try US first.

Good Luck to you.
Please stay in touch and keep me posted :D

[db3cool]

That guy on the magazine cover...there is no way he is a D.O. The COVER of the magazine says "Hero M.D.", thats ironic.
By the way, I just came out of a carib vs D.O. struggle myself, see "deciding pathway" in St. George's forum. I came to a conclusion that a D.O. will have a better chance at competitive residencies than a foreign grad and decided to pursue that direction. It was a very very hard choice but I know that people who have the choice are at least lucky they HAVE a choice, and the good thing is...no matter what you choose, a wrong decision is unlikely.

[Gforce007]

PEOPLE! Trying to make critical decision here...have you visited/attended/gone through all the crap of either foreign or DO? Saba and SGU would be my top choices over SMU due to the lack of CA approval. Saba is cheaper and has KAPLAN classes for USMLE, I am still learning about SGU...anyone? Did anyone consider going DO before going foreign and if they did, what did they decide and why?

Listen, you cant get a blanket response. I was at DO school (gave up my seat due to family crisis after one year) now I am going to sgu vs going back to my DO school. SGU is hands down the best "foreign" med school. Although I never under stood that b/c studying a medical concept on US soil vs Carib dosent make a difference. If rotations were over seas then I would have a problem and could see be called true foriegn med grad.

Facts
-A great Carib MD (SGU) is better then crappy DO (Will not divulge) and really good DO is prob better choice b/c of red tape then SGU.

Bottom line is -- If you do really well academically and on boards it waont matter. Focus on that. A crappy USMLE poor rotations showing yet you are from Harvard wont be better then a High USMLE great letters of rec from SGU.

Focus on the prize not how its wrapped

Hoped this helps

[Levi]

Thanks for your continuing opinions, I love reading about your decisions/ideas, etc. I sent off my DO app to AOA on Friday. Definitely late in the game (apps close 4/15), but if it supposed to be, it will be. I stalled for awhile but just figured I would send it out to see what happened. (Oh, and to donate another $220 to the never ending potential medical school fund-my favorite charity it seems). I called one school (Western in CA) and they are 60% full right now. Only Touro (CA and NV) and Western are still open for apps. Still finding mixed reviews on both. Thanks again...I appreciate it. Keep it coming!

Also, I like the link regarding , DO...the people have a point saying the DO degree should be listed as OMD instead. Something to consider. :)

edited for names.

[ed gee]

The OMD (oriental medical doctor) has been in use in health care for many years and I have heard this suggestion for DOs since at least 1980.

[stephew]

moving links to Hero MD to dedicated thread to that topic.

[UGAChemDawg]

Suppose that someone chooses a US DO school over a Caribbean MD school, because they believe it gives them a better shot at competitive residencies like derm, ortho, neurosurg, radiology, etc.

Now, one of the reasons that DOs have an advantage when it comes to competitive residency positions is because DOs are able to apply to their own DO residencies in those fields that MDs can't apply to.

Is there any catch to this?

Do DO neurosurgeons who are trained in DO only neurosurgery residencies make the same money, on average, as their MD counterparts? (not that money matters, it's just a matter of principle. Is there any disparity between compensation for MDs vs DOs, simply based on the stigma attached to the DO degree/quality of the residency)

What are the odds of a DO actually getting into an allopathic residency in one of those aforementioned ultra-competivive specialties, vs IMGs? That is, if we exclude the DOs who go into their own residencies and just look at the ones who get into allopathic residencies in those fields, how do they fare vs their IMG MD counterparts?

What if one desires an academic career in something like neurosurgery? Can this be accomplished by doing a DO residency in that field? Can someone who did a DO only residency turn around and be a professor in an allopathic program, or would it limit them to an academic career at other DO schools?

[McGillGrad]

Those are all very good questions.

[microphage]

Those are all very good questions.

but that's a bad answer

[ed gee]

Do DO neurosurgeons who are trained in DO only neurosurgery residencies make the same money, on average, as their MD counterparts? (not that money matters, it's just a matter of principle. Is there any disparity between compensation for MDs vs DOs, simply based on the stigma attached to the DO degree/quality of the residency)

What are the odds of a DO actually getting into an allopathic residency in one of those aforementioned ultra-competivive specialties, vs IMGs? That is, if we exclude the DOs who go into their own residencies and just look at the ones who get into allopathic residencies in those fields, how do they fare vs their IMG MD counterparts?

What if one desires an academic career in something like neurosurgery? Can this be accomplished by doing a DO residency in that field? Can someone who did a DO only residency turn around and be a professor in an allopathic program, or would it limit them to an academic career at other DO schools?

No disparity.
Too many variables to answer re the odds.
An AOA residency trained DO can be on faculty at an LCME/ACGME program.

[Scott1981]

the way i was told by some florida hospital DOs, the resolution 42 is getting harder and harder to get. i was informed that a big factor in the approval is if there were no internships available in the region you did residency at.

im searching some info to back up what was told to me by some DOs, this is a start.... talks about the same thing i was told although not in its exact form.

discussion on topic by DO students--http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...=261101&page=1 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=261101&page=1)

discussion on topic by DO students--http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=261100


florida requirement for year internship of waiver (resolution 42 discussed and quoted in above sdn threads...... also showing that it is getting harder to get) http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/osteo...c_req_exam.htm (http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/osteopath/os_lic_req_exam.htm)

excellent article summing up internal DO struggle and once again highlighting that the waiver is not as simple to get as some suggest http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/104/6/230

ed gee, i respect you opinion highly since you seem to have exposure to the DO profession as well. can you please post links to back up your claim that this waiver is very "simple" to obtain? all my research shows that this is not the case.

all in all, this just shows that there are hurdles to be jumped being a DO in some states too. not a smooth sailing ride in a few states.

im gonna be away for the weekend, but im looking forward to reading your response when i get back.


hey ed,

did you manage to get more info on resolution 42?

resolution 42 defined-- http://www.do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_postdocres42

[ed gee]

Re acceptance of an ACGME PG-1 by the AOA, my experience is limited to the DOs that trained in our program. All of our applicants completed required rotations (peds, IM, surgery, family medicine) and rotated with a DO that treats many patients with osteopathic manipulation. They followed the guidelines and had no problem with approval. The PD at the time had experience with DOs and the AOA when he worked in another state and stated the application acceptance was a non-issue.

This also transpired at a residency associated with a medical school in the top ten on US News rankings and a hospital that made their top 16 honor roll. Perhaps the AOA would feel foolish denying an applicant from our program.

[Scott1981]

im glad it worked out ok for them. however, your program sounds like it was a very good fit for a DO even though it was allopathic. it followed much of the curriculum that would have been found in the AOA internship to begin with. they even had the OMM exposure at your hospital. however, this doesnt sound like the average offering of a allopathic residency so this very well might be an exception.

secondly, how long ago was this? the word out is that lately the waiver has been getting very hard to obtain and the AOA is strictly adhering to their guidlines.

i highly doubt, the resolution would be granted without strictly following their guidlines for approval in the average allo IM pragram whose PGY 1 consists of :

Wards 7 months
Emergency Medicine 1 month
Medical ICU 1 month
Internal Medicine Subspecialty 3 months

im glad your residents had an easy time in the past and the top ten med school residency program was able to come through as well, but seeing the details, these were clearly zebras.

these are the guidlines that are hard to get around with a pgy-1 schedule like i listed above :
The D.O. documents limitations to entering an AOA-approved internship because of one or more of the following reasons:
a. Physical or mental disability or handicap which precludes the satisfactory completion of an AOA-approved internship.
b. Legal restrictions which require the D.O.’s physical presence in a state or local area where AOA-approved programs are not located.
c. Acceptance of a non-AOA accredited primary care training position based on a federally designated health profession shortage area (HPSA) where no AOA-approved programs exist.
d. Participation in a medical specialty or subspecialty in which no available AOA-approved programs or positions exist.
e. Unusual or exceptional circumstances, not included in a-through-d above, which limit AOA-approved training opportunities

without throwing the AOA a bone (satisfy one of above conditions or have a pseudo DO internship in the allo pragram), obtaining resolution 42 is by no means a non issue.

lastly, lets pretend the applicant is in a non IM, FP allo program. that really throws a wrench into it.

[Scott1981]

duplicate post

[Scott1981]

duplicate post

[Scott1981]

duplicate post