Fight Now, Medical Board To Vote

[IMG2006]

The GA medical board is scheduled to vote on the "blue/green" issue on April 6th of this year.

Opposition to this rule can be submitted via mail to:

Re: rule 360-2-02(c)3 now be renumbered 360-2-.02(c)4.

Diane Atkinson, CSBME
2 Peachtree St., NW
Atlanta, GA 30303-3465

or by email to:
matkinson@dch.state.ga.us


These comments must be submitted by March 23rd in order to have them placed on the agenda.

Here are some points you may take issue with:

1-Students who have completed all 4 years of medical education in another country do not have their clerkships evaluated. They are licensed based only upon the completion of the USMLEs and 3 years of residency. If these people have demonstrated that they are fit for licensure, why then should clerkships in the US be so scrutinized?

2-The rule, if enacted, will forever ban anyone who cannot get a hospital to stamp EVERY SINGLE MINUTE of clerkship time from licensure in GA, despite any achievements this physician may make in his/her career.

3- US students frequently rotate in settings which are not limited to ACGME teaching hospitals (clinics, etc). Why should this satisfy their requirements, but not those of an IMG

4- Given the population growth in this country and the lack of growth in medical education, this is an irresponsible policy, which will limit the opportunity of residency trained, board certified doctors to practice in GA.

5- This policy encourages the licensure of those who are less familiar with US healthcare systems, over those who have completed only course work abroad. This touches upon issues including, but not limited to, immigration in a post 9/11 US, language skills, and culture/customs issues.

By showing your support of IMGs who have passed their boards and have completed residency, you are striking a blow for all of us in all states. Our inaction on these issues, no matter where they are, has allowed us to be mistreated and subjected to bias and discrimination for far too long. I URGE YOU ALL to make your voice heard and to fight against this unfair ruling. Copy and send this message to all of your friends and to doctors who will support this cause. We only have a few weeks before IMGs in GA are forever shut out. If we allow this trend to continue, then you can expect more states to follow. On the other hand, if we can begin to roll back the tide of prejudice, I believe that we will be one step closer to equality and to gaining the momentum needed to garner equal rights in our own country.

[isa]

I have for sure seen DO students do core rotations in hospitals that are not aoa or acgme...I have seen US students do a huge portion of their psych core in hospitals that are not acgme...I have many other examples.....
Stupid rules:rolleyes:

[IMG2006]

I have for sure seen DO students do core rotations in hospitals that are not aoa or acgme...I have seen US students do a huge portion of their psych core in hospitals that are not acgme...I have many other examples.....
Stupid rules:rolleyes:


I have as well... It's crazy. I have rotated side by side with US students in hospitals that may not be able to certify MY rotations. Pardon my French, but that is 100% bullsh!t. I think that pretty clearly shows that my rotations are equal training and also that this rule is designed to keep us out once we have slaved for 3-8 years in training. It isn't right. Please, send your comments along to the board. The more opposition we generate, the better. If we can overturn just one of these rules, then we can gain momentum nation-wide.

[solideliquid]

IMG2006-

Can you tell me where you got this info?

What are they voting on exactly you didn't explain that too well.

And finally, if the vote goes against IMGs, does it mean people can't get the educational lisence during residency?

[IMG2006]

IMG2006-

Can you tell me where you got this info?

What are they voting on exactly you didn't explain that too well.

And finally, if the vote goes against IMGs, does it mean people can't get the educational lisence during residency?


From the medical board, I am on the mailing list. You can view a PDF copy on the website:

www.medicalboard.georgia.gov (http://www.medicalboard.georgia.gov)


They are voting on whether or not to continue to require students of non-LCME schools who complete clinical clerkships in the US to do so ONLY in ACGME acredited teaching hospitals. If you view the application for licensure, you will find the IMG only section requires that each clerkship be stamped with the Hospital seal.


No, you can still do your residency. You just won't be able to practice after you have spent 3 years killing yourself.

[LastDance]

img2006, i'm confused... if this amendment passes... how does it affect img's? so what your saying is that carrib. grads will be ableto do residency in georgia but not get licensed in georga?? why?? and what does it mean to get something "stamped" by the hospital?? thanks for clearing this up

[Scott1981]

whats the big deal of doing all your rotations in green book hospitals? im not taking any chances. im gonna be proactive and do all my rotations green book even though they may not be necessary in my state.

[LastDance]

What does "green book" mean and how do you check which hospitals are green book or otherwise?

thanks

[teratos]

Mnay states already have these requirments. It isn't a big issue getting all of your rotations verified. Your school should do that without much difficulty. G

[IMG2006]

img2006, i'm confused... if this amendment passes... how does it affect img's? so what your saying is that carrib. grads will be ableto do residency in georgia but not get licensed in georga?? why?? and what does it mean to get something "stamped" by the hospital?? thanks for clearing this up

Correct, in fact, that is the case in most of the 20 or so states with such requirments. Residents work under a "training permit," which is not a license. Students commonly make the mistake of thinking that once they see residents from their schools in a state that this means they will be able to practice there.

[IMG2006]

Mnay states already have these requirments. It isn't a big issue getting all of your rotations verified. Your school should do that without much difficulty. G

The school can't verify them. It has to come directly from the hospital's GME office. In fact, the verification form must be mailed directly to the hospital, and then by the hospital to the board.

Where I take issue with this is

1) What is the point, given the fact that clerkships outside of the US are not subjected to this process.

2) If a hospital closes, changes leadership, or looses my documents, why should I then be banned forever, since there may be difficulty completing this process when I will already have completed my residency?

3) Many schools do not pass acurate information to their students. SMU told us that after 3 years of residency, we should have no problems licensing in virtually any state, other than TX and CA. Like a fool, I believed them. Now, I'm not positive that all of my rotations are in fact verifiable and the match results are posted next week.

4) I think that board certification (USMLE and residency completion assumed) and graduation from a WHO school should cover all requirements.

5) Such rules limit the exposure students are able to gain in various subject areas. For instance, I was unable to set up a radiology rotation because I couldn't get one under the GME office of a hospital.

[solideliquid]

Does anyone know what amount of rotations must be ACGME for Georgias medical board?

Do they insist on all elective rotations to be ACGME as well?

I am going to be doing my residency in Georgia this year and I did my three month Internal Medicine rotation at a non-ACGME hospital. Although all my attendings had privliges at ACGME hospitals, I don't know how much that will help my case if I want a license in GA after residency.
Again, I am looking forward to the vote which will happen soon (hopefully).

Anyone else matched in GA this year?

[IMG2006]

BTW: Please, please submit your feelings to the board before the 23rd.

...Yes, the standard which is to be enacted will require 100%. If you read the IMG only section of the application, you will see that every clerkship must be documented in this way.

I did, however, have an interesting coversation with a recently licensed SABA grad over the weekend. He did an FP residency in GA, and was worried the whole time about this very issue.
He told me that he had done a few rotations that were "loosely" affiliated with ACGME. We had a preceptor in comon, which is one of the rotations that has been keeping me up nights. This doc was on staff at that time in an ACGME hosp. That place has since lost its status, but this was enough for the board when he licensed last year. I'm still scared because the GME office doesn't exist anymore.
He told me that the board will initially deny you, put you through a few months of red tape, tell you there is no other way, and then there is a secondary procedure... I have no solid proof of where this process is deliniated, but he clearly has a license because he was at work when I spoke with him.
He said what ends up happening is that you can go back, trace the affiliations, hire a notary public, and get it done in a very round about way. He said there is a form for the docs to sign which states their affiliations etc.... I really don't want to have to rely on something that sounds that flimsy.
Long story made short... what was the point of putting him through that? His education didn't change... nothing changed accept the boards' mind. It's a silly restriction, especially when you think about that fact that if you had done IM in war-torn, strickly by candle light, can't-drink-the-water Afganistan instead of with a boarded doc in the US... you wouldn't be worried about this. No good deed goes unpunished.
Besides... if you make it through the steps, and a residency... what other proof is needed? I would even be willing to take it if they require me to be board certified. But COME ON!!! Many US grads are out there with only an intern year of GME and no boards. This was REALLY common until the 80's. Just what standard are we being held to here?
Good luck in GA. I'll be back ( I hope) in three years.... FL, at least, is a little more reasonable. They license anyone after 3 years GME.

[solideliquid]

Was there a decision? I am doing my residency in GA and I am very interested in the outcome.

[IMG2006]

Was there a decision? I am doing my residency in GA and I am very interested in the outcome.

Still waiting on the minutes to be posted. They don't vote in open session. The president, who BTW is a true gentleman, said that the matter would probably be tabled for further debate... so I doubt we'll get a final answer this month.

[solideliquid]

Still waiting on the minutes to be posted. They don't vote in open session. The president, who BTW is a true gentleman, said that the matter would probably be tabled for further debate... so I doubt we'll get a final answer this month.


Hey! I'm glad someone other than me is following this issue? Is there a chance of anything positive coming out of this? What I mean is, is there a chance for people in GA who did not do 100% of 3rd and 4th year rotations at ACGME-hospitals?

[IMG2006]

Hey! I'm glad someone other than me is following this issue? Is there a chance of anything positive coming out of this? What I mean is, is there a chance for people in GA who did not do 100% of 3rd and 4th year rotations at ACGME-hospitals?


Take this all in the proper context please, but know that I am 100% in the boat with you.

...I think so.... I got the impression that the intention of the board is not to keep quality doctors out of GA. There were several voices of agreement with my argument about 4 year IMGs and 2&2 IMGS. There were a few on the other side of the aisle. One of them even said, "in the past, we've licensed people who were board certified, even if they didn't meet the exact letter of the law." My point is, why not just go ahead and make that the letter of the law... that way I can quit spitting up blood for the next few years.

At any rate, I think you're going to be ok. I talked with an IMG, licensed in GA, a week or so before I went to the meeting. He told me that several of his rotations were very loosely affiliated with ACGME programs and his application went right through.

Hang tight and I'll let you know when I hear something or if I could use some help the next time. In fact, if there's a next time... I'll need some help. ;) That being said, we might have a long wait... the minutes are several months behind on the website.