Its always interesting to listen to dems and repub talk. Ever notice repubs state facts and use logic whereas dems talk in sound bites and political clichés. Bush is a moron! Republicans want to steal senior citizians medicare, social security, soul !... great another free thinker that only watches CNN and Saturday Night Live. You don't have to be a radical you can simply disagree and vote accordingly. I'm glad Arnold is running it is forcing the Democrats deal with fact that republicans don't fit into their pure evil "definition" ;and its ok to think for yourself and still be a republican. Well at the least they will have to come up with some new one lines. Thank god for SNL what would you do without them.

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There are many socialistic countries that do very well in providing health care. So I am not sure where you are getting your facts. Some examples that include but are not limited to the two you mention are: Canada, Japan, France, Britain, Italy (most of the G7 countries). Then there are Norway, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, etc. Do these countries have issues with longer waits, and higher taxes, yes, but they also have lower mortality rates, and a higher standard of living. Infact, as an example, in Canada the same Rx drugs that are used in the US are 50-90% cheaper, not to mention the ever lasting hassle of insurance issues. So, bottom line, in the US you have two driving forces in health care, one, drug companies, and two, insurance companies. And so, don't take issue with socialized medicine, take issue with the respective lobbyist that make your job suck. Here is one example, http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?...PTJ2706301.pdf


If you wanted to get rich, you picked the wrong career. If you seriously believe that you need to have the haves and the have nots for "your way of life" to survive, you been sold a bill of goods. Sorry, but the american economy is one of the most inefficient in the world. It is only the fact of the population base and the luck of geography that the US has been so successful. Just compare the GNP/GDP's of the G7's countries.
I think you are frustrated, and for a newbie doctor to be that way, well, suck it up, and don't cloud the issues. Because, how in the world can providing medicine to everyone be so bad???

Funny how this was the original post. I guess I'll accept resposibility for turning it into a political debate, being I brought up hillary. Oops

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Sometimes in life we have to be honest with ourselves in what it is in our best interest, even though it goes against our "want's" or egos.

Take enough tangents and it's full circle, so, enjoy!

Ahh I'll skip the full circle on this one, it was in jest, but thanks.

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Sometimes in life we have to be honest with ourselves in what it is in our best interest, even though it goes against our "want's" or egos.

Sorry, my friend, Socialized medicine is NOT working. In England you can wait months for a CT scan, and you may wait months for bypass surgery. That isn't good medicine. You also missed my point about the haves and have-nots. The great thing about america is that we are such a successful capitalist society, that we take care of everybody. Not just those who can't work, but those who don't want to

As for my way of life....I come from a blue collar background. On both sides of my family, nobody until my generation went to college. The other great thing about america is it allows you the opportunity to advance. Having worked in an inner city hospital, I can tell you that nobody is denied appropritate healthcare. I'm sure it happens some places, and I think it is wrong. Socialized medicine takes the system where most people get good health care, and some people get poor health care, and make sure everyone gets mediocre health care. Great.

Actually, I love what I do. I don't want to see socialized medicine, becasue I already see hints of it creeping in to practice, and I don't like what I see. Look at HMOs. They try to dictate what you do. I argue daily with people who have a high school diploma over which drugs a person needs. Without money to be made in any area, R&D will grind to a halt. Drug companies won't put out new drugs. etc. I like your idealistic views that everyone deserves the best healthcare available. I would like to see it. Is it possible?

As for getting rich, you and I both know that is a fantasy. Had I wanted to do that, I would have chosen another profession. I would like to pay my $200K in school loans off, though. G

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AUC Class of '99
Bored certified
I may be a jerk, but I'm a Jedi jerk like my father.

Some say I look like Buzz Lightyear....
(They're right)

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

Amen teratos!!!!

From someone who is living in England currently and have worked in it shealthcare system.... SOCIALIZED MEDICINE DOES NOT WORK!!!

People here pay 40-60% income tax and still have to buy medical insurance to get even halfway decent healthcare. If the US goes socialized the healthcare system will fall apart.... garunteed. We won't be able to handle the onslaught of freeloaders that will overburdon the system.

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BTS4202
St. Christopher's COM
4th Year
http://www.mdparadise.com

"If there really is a God, He has a lot of explaining to do"
- Dennis Leary

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Maybe, and maybe not, England and even Canada does have issues with doctor shortages and wait times, but socialized medicine is working and does work. The EU is another proof of this, and looking at it's dollar compared to the US, I think economically socialized medicine is doing fine. Of course there are always issues of improvement, but comparing an HMO to socialized medicine is not even close. Again, don't confuse insurance companies with state run systems.

Also, there continues to be vast numbers of people that do not get the same health care as those that do have insurance in the USA, regardless of medicare, or not. Especially, as you suggested for the working people. And in America, even Blue Cross/Blue Shield has waiting periods for pre-existing conditions, or increase premiums limiting early treatment for serious illness as suggested by you in England. Infact, I challenge anyone to find an insurer that will cover someone with a pre-existing condition, or pay for the treatment. It just is not so. There plenty of examples of this just take a look online.

It is kind of like rental car companies. They are not in the business of renting cars, there in the business of selling car insurance. This is the same with the US health care, the insurance companies are there to make money selling insurance, not in providing health care. So again, your comparables are not correct.

Q: If the majority of Europe and Canada, and others manage to do fine with socialized medicine, then why can't the USA.

A: It is because the insurance companies want it that way.