Thread: Q regarding UK rotations and US residency

Hi all

went to the clinical fair in the histo lab today. was a bit disappointed about baltimore not being there.

here is my question. i have read a lot of stuff pertaining to UK rotations by AUC students. can anyone give me the lo-down of how that affects a person when he/she tries to get a residency in the USA? i have heard contradictory things about how the residency directors in the USA give a lot more preference to AUC students (i.e. American citizens who have gone thru AUC) who have done their cores (possibly all their rotations) in the USA. I have been told also about how recommendations from the UK towards residency in the USA, are not given as much weight as recommendations from USA rotations.

Can anyone give insight on what the status is currently?

thank you.

Correct me if im wrong Dr G but in England arent generic names for drugs used more often whereas in the states once we start clinicals we begin using brand names. I may be wrong but StudentAUC will learn when/if he/she/it takes pharmacology learning generic names makes a lot of sense and helps you a lot more understanding method of action for a lot of the drugs. Personally I would love to learn the british skills in history taking, more than our H&P class and then have to memorize brand names for the drugs that you already know, but i dont think the woman is up for goin to england . Even if you didnt memorize the trade names, if you got your pocket pc you can always type in the generic and get the brand name

Maybe some hospitals do have policies like studentauc is talking about, however, all the hospitals near me.....which basically all are yale-affiliated have more foreigners than americans working.....at least it seems and they are in pretty high positions. If youre a good doctor you'll prove yourself. If you're a tool well then just hope life throws a box of nails at you because you'll be best suited for the job, however, if life throws a window at you, youre just going to make yourself look like a stupid tool

Originally Posted by StudentAUC.

yes, the medications and from what dr. model was saying, maybe a few testing procedures etc are different, but no major differences....that wasn't the main focus of my post ...I agree it's not a big deal, but take into consideration what I wrote in it's entirety and you'll see my point.

No, I still strongly disagree with you. I am a former Chief Resident at an AUC clinical site, and now an attending at an AUC clinical site. I have participated in selecting residents. You are posting hearsay, and expecting me to take them at face value. You can hold that opinion, but don't start posting long monologues based on WHAT YOU HEARD. I know too many people who went to the UK and have done quite well, and ended up in competitive residencies. I know from first hand experience. G

(-1) + 1 = 0

Originally Posted by swimguy23

Correct me if im wrong Dr G but in England arent generic names for drugs used more often whereas in the states once we start clinicals we begin using brand names.

Some of the names are different. Most are the same. G

Originally Posted by teratos

Originally Posted by StudentAUC.

yes, the medications and from what dr. model was saying, maybe a few testing procedures etc are different, but no major differences....that wasn't the main focus of my post ...I agree it's not a big deal, but take into consideration what I wrote in it's entirety and you'll see my point.

No, I still strongly disagree with you. I am a former Chief Resident at an AUC clinical site, and now an attending at an AUC clinical site. I have participated in selecting residents. You are posting hearsay, and expecting me to take them at face value. You can hold that opinion, but don't start posting long monologues based on WHAT YOU HEARD. I know too many people who went to the UK and have done quite well, and ended up in competitive residencies. I know from first hand experience. G

Well, I respect your opinion, but again, these were the doctors who (as yourself) are in charge of choosing residents so that's credible information if they themselves have told me this directly, so it's definately not hearsay information. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. An interested student asked, and I have shared the information which I firsthand have heard straight from the mouths of not one, but 2 physicians who make such decisions so although your opinions differ, this information is indeed credible, not just my personal opinion.

round and round we go

this has been talked about over 200 times on auc's forum and about another 200 times on other forums. this was one where a search would have benfited more.

the thread was ended..... but lord and behold..... one user seemed to put their two cents in and now the thread went on and on trying to correct the "i heard from so and so" instead of "i experienced this."

Originally Posted by StudentAUC.

I firsthand have heard straight from the mouths of not one, but 2 physicians who make such decisions so although your opinions differ, this information is indeed credible, not just my personal opinion.

So, what are their names? If you can't give those, it is just hearsay.

I looked up the definition of hearsay:

1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.

2. Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

The problem with you, studentAUC, is that you hear something, latch on to it, accept it as complete truth, and then proceed to post that idea all over the forums as if it were Gospel. While the one program that the people you spoke with may prefer letters from US faculty, most don't. Besides, do you realize that most of the people who go to the UK do their electives in the US? G

Originally Posted by StudentAUC.

Well, this is a bit "controversial" on here so in order to prevent WWIII from breaking loose I will say this.....DISCLAIMER: the statement I'm about to make is a general statement, and of course will not be the same for EVERY single hospital in the US. With that said, I was told personally by a former AUC student who is currently a chief resident who actually deals with choosing candidates, as well as by a physician who works at one of the AUC-affiliated hospitals.....if you are looking to get a more competitive residency, it is in your best interest not to go to the UK for these reasons:
- First, coming from a Caribbean school, you already have one strike against you when it comes to finding residencies so you need to work twice as hard to "prove" that we are just as capable as the US students. (No, it's not fair, but it's true....)
- You may miss out on making important connections (obvious reasons)
- Some residency programs maylook down upon doing clinicals outside of the US because different procedures are not the same in the US vs the UK. Also, the names of medications are different. Thus, you have to "re-learn" SOME of the information you've learned in the UK in order to prepare for USMLE Step 2 as well as for work in the US.... Thus, SOME programs don't like that.
Therefore, going to the UK MAY hurt you, but staying in the US CAN'T hurt you so if you are looking for a difficult residency it's in your best interest to stay in the US for clinicals. However, if you are looking for a less competitive residency (internal med, pediatrics, etc., it doesn't really matter....as long as you do fairly well in clinicals/USLME you shouldn't have a problem finding a residency)

since yet again, people are posting without fully reading my post first I'll quote myself......i highlighted the essentials. Basically, your opinion is your opinion, your experience is your experience, the opinions of the physicians I spoke to is their opinion, and if they say that it happens, they I believe that they wouldn't sit there and lie to me....what good would that do anyway? Yes, there are many many good physicians who went to Caribbean schools and did clinicals in the UK. Some may even be in the more competitive fields. I'm not arguing with that. Take note of my use of the word MAY....I used this word because neither you nor I know what goes on in every single hospital in the US (as I also said in the post....). One of the physicians I spoke to has been working at many hospitals, and no offense, but I'm sure he's had more experience in this department than you (again, no offense, but he's an older man....) so I'm sure his advice is sound. Again, NEITHER of our info is gospel.... There's no need to go back and forth. I have respected your opinion and I just ask you to respect the opinion of the physicians I spoke to personally. If there are 2 doctors from 2 hospitals in 2 different states who have said it, then it is valid info...not hearsay when it comes from them directly. The enlarged phrase is the main point of my post.....I don't see how that's a subject of debate? Doing clinicals in the US can not possibly in any way hurt you..... Please, let's just leave it at that....

(and I don't think I even need to address the issue of posting the physicians' names.........I hope you weren't actually serious about that....)

Originally Posted by StudentAUC.

..... Please, let's just leave it at that....

Sure. I still stand by my assertions. Since the overwhelming majority of people who go to the UK do their 4th year in the US, it doesn't hurt. The learning experience in the UK clinical sites is, IMHO, excellent, and you are scaring people away from them with your posts.

Originally Posted by StudentAUC.

(and I don't think I even need to address the issue of posting the physicians' names.........I hope you weren't actually serious about that....)

No, but my point is your just saying your sources are credible doesn't make them so.

why don't you pm george your sources? then he can verify without contacting them by looking them up as licensed docs?

either way it doesn't change the fact that the majority of people who go to irlenad/uk have positive things to say and i have personally not heard of anyone not matching who went there. doesn't mean it may not happen but it points to it as a rare event.

in the years i've been on this board there has been 1 person who said they didn't like the rotations there and it was due to the laid back nature of the rotations.....