anyone know a source that will tell you avg usmle scores for residencies? as what do i need to be competitive for OB/GYN, EM, and IM?

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OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

pretty much any passing score will get you a spot in ob/gyn or im, at least somewhere...there are simply lots of spots to go around in IM and ob/gyn is less popular for many reasons...as a male, you also have an advantage in ob/gyn due to the fact that you will be a minority.

EM is a mid-tier, in terms of competitveness. so, you would likely want to get at least the mean to get interviews.

usmle scores will open/close the doors, but remember that there will be MUCH more to your application than simply these numbers. i am finding in my clinicals (at pretty competitive CA programs) that the obsession with step scores is largely a med student phenom, at least in the specialties that are less competitive. the programs i have spoken with have no screen, simply want a pass, strong LOR's and an interesting applicant.

basically, the conventional wisdom at the programs i have been through (IM, FP and Ob/gyn), is that WHO you are is MUCH more important than the scores. nobody even cared when i mentioned my score on step 1 (which was a horrible 192). each program assured me that there were no screens in place, and that i would certainly get an interview if i wanted it.

granted, it helps to actually do well in the rotation, and they may overlook scores. but, the general feeling was that they are far less important than i had believed.

moral of the story: do as well as you can. a good score can never hurt you, and may well open some previously closed doors. and, if you are going for a uber-comp residency or location you WILL need a high score but, a low pass is not the end of the world for many programs, including some well regarded spots.

There really isnt an average I think...although above 230 should be competitive. I think foreign grad is a stigma that weighs in more than scores. Here is my reasoning.

I am in interviews for EM right now. I have a friend who is also in EM match but went to Loma LInda. I scored above 220 on step I and above 230 on step 2. He scored 208 and 204 respectively. He has gotten 23 interviews for residency...I have gotten 7.

Could there be other factors? Most certainly....but this is a guy whose resume is comparable to mine in work experience (both paramedics prior to med school)...my grades were slightly better...and I have two Master's degrees, which he does not. We applied to basically the same schools in California, Arizona, and Chicago.

If you were to look at us side by side...we should be competitive. Yet, he blazed me in interviews!! Perhaps there was something else they didnt like in my application, but I have to look at the facts. I am pretty sure that the foreign medical grad status didnt help.

Compart that to my friends who are in internal medicine and family practice. They are cancelling interviews because they have so many. Kern Medical Center where I rotated wont even look at a foreign medical grad for their ER program, but I got an interview in Internal Medicine quite easily. They have NEVER taken a foreign medical grad out of the match.

Yes, I am sorry to say that these residency directors still have their optical rectitis when it comes to us FMGs. Obviously we didnt study, partied on the beach, and guessed real lucky on the USMLE to pass....both times....better than our US counterparts in most cases. The only way to get into a competitive program is to do a clerkship where you want to go and impress the hell out of them. Unfortunately, I did all of my rotations at KMC thinking I could change their mind if I did really well....I didn't!

I probably should have rotated elsewhere, but I didnt really want to deal with the pain in the neck of getting approved by MEIO and hoping they will answer email or place me without screwing up my schedule...plus I wanted to graduate on time in April which meant no breaks! Hindsight is 20/20...but I think I made the right move because I will graduate in time to get my California license pre-approval letter if I grad. in April.

If you go primary care....peds, FP, or IM...dont sweat it...you are already competitive because many spots go unfilled. You are practically guaranteed an interview. If you specialty...find out if they accept FMG..then, and only then, rotate through them.

Best of luck in your search and remember that every rotation is an job audition.

Jonathan

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Jonathan

i would agree with the above...if they don't want an IMG, your scores will not really help that much. if they are open to an IMG, then they will prob care more about other things (ie. how you "fit" in the program) that correlate better with other issues (ie rotation performance, LOR's) than usmle scores.

I can't speak for USMLE scores reguarding OB/GYN and other specialties but i am wanting ER and i have spoken to a couple of residency directors personally.
Pretty much what i was told that you have to have 1st time step one score of 210 or higher to get interviewed. Some programs refuse to interview fmgs, period. But the ones that do interview fmgs are looking for higher scores. I feel that you need scores over 220 to compete with U.S. graduates(just my opinion). I have heard that many programs set filters such as if you have ever failed step one they will not even look at your application irreguardless of what you make on your 2nd or 3rd attempt. Or if you are an fmg or have a score lower than say 220. These are just examples and i think every program has different pre requisites.
later on
PAC

"I scored above 220 on step I and above 230 on step 2. He scored 208 and 204 respectively. He has gotten 23 interviews for residency...I have gotten 7."

"Could there be other factors?"

of course there are, like PAC said if there are other FMG's in a program then its probably not the school some programs likely had a filter so if you failed step one the first time or if you are not a US citizen/resident then they didn't even look at the scores....who knows what other filters they have.


and ***** is right. the school's defenition of a green book rotation is if it meets one:

1)site has a university affiliation with a allopathic med school
2)site has reseidency program in FP(and other programs are 'unbrellaed' in)
3) individual department has a residency program

the student clinical handbook states that there has been recent changes in licensure laws and students should be mindful of the laws in your desired state. i know some states don't accept the FP unbrella so maybe that was the prob.

either way always check is best advice

__________________
OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!