Dr G makes a very good point - A non profit state/government supported school has a better chance than the new start ups "for profit schools" of getting Ca apporval. That is why the other medical schools from other countries you listed are able to get grads in Ca. They are state suported non-profit schools for in country needs.
The only caribe school that is state supported and non profit is St James on Bonaire. Due to the St James vs Xavier wars - it has taken some bad press from the VMD trolls. But - They have been able to place two grads in Texas residency also out of three graduating classes. One grad will be a chief resident in pgy-3 at Sony Brook in July. They also have in their charter and mission statement to supply MDs for the NA and other caribe islands. This is a little known legal fact that escapes the minds of some people. The con about St James are that they require 96 weeks of clinical rotations vs 72 at other schools. (I myself don't see that as a con). They also don't have a 5th semester like AUA does in Maimi which is a major Pro for AUA.

People yack about Ca issues - but Texas, Kansas and Indiana are very difficult states also. Saba is banned/not certified in Indiana BTW. Nv and Tn are going to the Ca list at some future date no listed yet on their websites.

So the big thing is to do your research on the schools and state you want to practice in. Create your Pro and con list for each school - then consult your local psychic about where he or she sees you practicing medicine and then work hard in the school you choose. You also can take with a grain of salt what I or others say till you see and read it for yourself on a certified state board site.

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PreMed Forum Moderator

In Grad school in Biology

Yes, but those schools are viewed differently. They are classified as "domicile schools" whose main purpose is to educate people from that country for practice in that country. Saddam Hussein University is also approved in CA. There is not real approval process for these schools. St.Matt's exists for the purpose of educating US citizens for practice in the US. G

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AUC Class of '99
Bored certified
I may be a jerk, but I'm a Jedi jerk like my father.

Some say I look like Buzz Lightyear....
(They're right)

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

Here we go again. A bit of search on this topic will yield quite a bit of information. Again, the OP is perpetuating a common myth about California approval and domicile schools...

Here's the bottom line --

1) No medical board can evaluate all medical schools in the world. A line has to be drawn somewhere -- and it has. The term "offshore medical school" refers to "pseudo-US schools" that use US curriculums, educate mostly Americans, and export vast majority of its graduates back into the US, AND CONDUCTS 50% of the instructions in the US (clinical years). These schools are pseudo-US schools, and we have traditionally done a VERY POOR job policing our own, resulting in many scam schools that have opened and closed in the past. THESE are the schools that California has chosen to scrutinize, with the blessing of FSMB. These offshore schools are subject to inspection and approval process before official recognition/approval. And this is very logical to do so because these offshore schools are essentially pseudo-US schools.

2) Domicile foreign medical schools are true foreign medical schools. They exist to educate their own people. Very few, if any, of these graduates come to the US. These schools are subject to their own government's controls to the standard they see fit FOR THEIR PERSPECTIVE COUNTRIES. Therefore, California has decided not to inspect these schools for approval.

3) NOW THE BIGGEST MYTH about California approval -- "California approval" of an medical school (either by inspection/process of offshore schools or automatic for domicile foreign schools) -- is NOT an approval for licensure!! I say again, California approval of a foreign school is NOT an approval for licensure. It's an approval for the ability to for graduates to APPLY FOR LICENSURE!! California has one AND ONLY ONE standard for medical licensure that everyone, USMG/USIMG/FMG must meet for licensure. Saddam University in Iraq (using another posters analogy from years ago) may be "automatically approved" as an true domicile school. But that does NOT mean its graduates are automatically licensible. It only means its graduates are allowed to apply. In reality, graduates from substandard offshore domicile schools are washed out during the application process if their education do not meet CA standards. So, even though these domicile IMG"s can apply, very few have any chance of receiving a CA license. California has a very extensive licensure evaluation process for EACH INDIVIDUAL APPLICANT. They will go as far as tracking down actual hours spent in each class and match that against the set requirement of CA legislation. So, most domicile grads are washed out in the process -- and CA keeps the 600-dollar application fee! Just try to look for any Saddam U graduates in California -- you probably won't find many, if any. .

So, the gripe about how substandard third world country grads are able to be licensed while AUA grads are not -- well, that's not entirely true -- third world country grads can APPLY. And they won't get licensed if their education is substandard. The reality is, California is doing AUA a favor -- they are telling you upfront that they won't license you -- rather than taking your $600 dollar application fee and then wash you out. Even if AUA grads are allowed to apply for CA licensure, the odds are, they will be washed out anyways because there is only ONE standard for licensure. Offshore grads get to find out before they apply (through CA approval process of their schools). True domicile IMG's get to find out AFTER they apply, paying the $600 dollar non-refundable fee...

As for retroactivity -- no. If you graduate from AUA before the approval (or if the approval does not cover your starting date of AUA), you will not be licensed in CA, ever.

You know this now. So if CA is important to you, go to a CA approved school. Take some personal responsibility rather than blaming it on the state.

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM

if a medical school was recognized by WHO prior to Cali requiring new schools to be evaulated prior to licensure, then its graduates will be ok to practice in Cali. new schools opened up after this have to get approved by Cali, whether in the US or not (look at KMC - Manipal/Melaka). i believe that there is a loophole that says if your school is upwards of 80% locals then it is given approval, but that is a Q for Pat Park.

Great post Picard - well said. For me Ca is not an issue. For others it is. I think that post is one of the best I have seen on the subject.

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PreMed Forum Moderator

In Grad school in Biology

For some detailed discussion about this issue, go to this link.

http://www.valuemd.com/state-medical...al-agenda.html

I am not close yet. but watch out, california board, once i am getting close to get licensed i will organize grads from smu, aua and other schools, we will file a lawsuit against california medical board.

They can not tell us that we can't practice medicine in our own home state. This is plain simple discrimination based on education. As i have stated many times we are not asking them to approve anyone who can't pass step 1 to pracitice medicine. We demand the board to treat us equally as long as we pass all three steps just like all the other grads from US or caribbean med. schools.

They are abusing power and we can only use the laws to protect for our rights of equal opportunity.

States have the right to regulate the medical profession as they see fit. I think if you take your case to the public you will not find a heck of a lot of sympathy. In fact, making a whole lot of noise may make things worse for a lot of people. G

__________________
AUC Class of '99
Bored certified
I may be a jerk, but I'm a Jedi jerk like my father.

Some say I look like Buzz Lightyear....
(They're right)

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

if st james was truly state supported, domicile, and not for profit then grads would be able to apply to ca.... but they cant. st james is no different then any of the other start up..... for profit.

the only school in the carib that fits your standard is UWI.

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Dr. Scott
Internal Medicine
PGY-1

AUC Forum Moderator

I understand your concern. But you are worrying about something that is waaaay down the road. For now, concentrate on getting into med sch, and PASSING,......and getting your MD. Your Calif fixation may be gone by the time you rotate in other great places like Miami, Atlanta, NY, DC, etc, etc,..... Become a doctor FIRST. Then, worry about WHERE you are going to practice. THAT's the easy part. Cheers.

Actually, you got it backwards. Becoming a "doc" is the easy part, with so many places nowadays you can simply walk in and buy a degree. Getting licensed is the difficult part. And IMG, especially offshore IMG, licensure is getting tougher and tougher. Have you read the FSMB statement? Students nowadays MUST look into the future, as things will be very different by the time they apply for licensure. Just ask those who started schools last year thinking TN/NV were OK, only to be spanked this year, finding out that TN/NV are no longer OK.

There are plenty of "offshore" graduates running around with MD degrees that are not licensible in any state, even after obtaining ECFMG certs. Heck, my college roommate is one such person.

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM