Objectively then, what is so wrong with SJ and Xavier? And is Aruba that different to Bonaire? What is ALL SAINTS doing that is so right?

Much has been said about SJ but not too much about Xavier, what do you know about Xavier when comparing to All Saints?

Care to comment?

Wow!
That was a fast response! I was just going back to edit my previous message for errors when I noticed a reply already.
Well, considering I could write pages about SJSM, I'll inform you about Xaviers. From what I know from some of my colleagues who were at SJSM before me, these guys used to come down to Bonaire to scare off the initial first and second semester classes that were at SJSM. They conconcted tails of licensing issues and sueing the school. Some of students actually got scared by this and left. Pretty low to start off with, especially considering SJSM was just in its beginning stages. The students were already scared and they were employing bullying tactics. Pretty soon after this, rumours were about of another school opening up...and lo and behold.. Xaviers opens up on the island.
The previous posts about Xaviers trying to take students and staff from SJSM are true and they were very aggressive about it as well. Not to say our school was any better, but their methods were plain and simply unethical no matter how you looked at it. Professors were in essence being poached. This caused further strife when SJSM had to hire more professors and at times we were lacking professors to teach classes. So it was a matter of juggling the existing professors (not successfully I might add too). Don't get me wrong. there are a few fine professors from SJSM but you can't expect one professor to teach more than he/she can handle.
So this is an example of how Xavier was going about things.
Furthermore, they would have the audacity to post up flyers at our school saying that there was a new school opening up and to come and visit their seminars!! These are only a few things. The main points that affected me when looking in Xaviers was its mysterious loan situation. For one, they claimed to be working with SC. Then claimed SC was their consultants and there was no other affiliation between the schools, yet we were asked to send loan application to SC! In effect, it would look like Xaviers was a branch campus of SC for the matter of loan purposes! Yet the school claimed no ties other than consultancy.
Their clinical rotations was another thing. I have contacted various students who are at Xaviers now and who are doing clinical rotations. I remember Xaviers harping about how all their rotations were done IN ACGME accredited hospital. THey made it look like they owned Atlanta General Hospital... which on my research it is not. It so happens that one of the individuals running the school works at Atlanta General as a physician.. this same individual runs PGY1MD. They are nothing but clinical coordinators for that one hospital. On further research I found out that the individual assumed his position at that hospital no more than 3 or 4 years ago. Also, to furhter discredit SJSM, they maintained that no rotations could be done in clinics. I did not know this at the time and whole heardtedly believed this. This led me to believe that practically all of SJSM's rotations were invalid. What they failed to neglect to mention was that unless the rotation tied back to a ACGME accredited hospital even it was in a clinic, then there was no problem. I found this out when I realized that their own students (Xaviers) was doing just that! Rotating in clinics which tied back to Atlanta General. From the way they were going about it, I was under the impression I would be AT atlanta general NOT in some clinic in some bad neighbourhood... to me they seem to boast alot and have an air of false granduosity. This worked well in the beginning but not for long.
Anyway... that should give you an idea of how they were going about things. Not to say that SJSM was any better.
ASUM on the hand are being run by individuals that I have had previous contact with. And I know them to be genuine people from my interaction with them. I can tell you once thing. SJSM started in one room near a casino with one prof teaching all the courses (this can be verified from any of the 1st starting semester class) and Xaviers started off by directly feeding off from St James. Xaviers has very few actual students of their own. Most are St James transfers. ASUM for a school just starting has much better facilities. I'd even have to say they have real washrooms Only the St James students will get that one. But please, don't let washrooms be the deciding factor for going to any medical school
Also, I've visited Aruba and it just a fascinating island. Much better than Bonaire in all aspects. Just by visiting Aruba and talking to some of the staff, I can see why the schools in Bonaire are getting all finnicky about All Saints opening up in an island soo close by. And yes I have seen the ASUM campus and it is a far cry much better than anything SJSM or Xaviers has to offer.

Anyway.. that should be objective enough I think.
I'm sure this email will offend a few people... but these are my experiences.

Happy Holidays.

sup guys ...

thanks for the info you recently posted ..awesome work. For all the rest ..you've bin PUNKED..u guys are gettin pissed off at alberto and acting like little children ...your not even worthy to post a reply if its gonna be tight like that ..two words - Grow uP ..like really. If you cant give a mature response to anyone on the post ..then keep it shut. If anyones wondering, i dont know this alberto dude ...but i do know that you guys (wiseguy and azsp...wuteva) make me sick. I know not to go to any school that would admit people like you ...those schools are the ones that need to be looked into rigorously ...if this offends you ...deal with it

Dr.R.Jiwan

And this is an example of how a "Grow uP" should behave.

lol

I think I am supposed to be feeling chastised but I am not sure?

__________________
Moderator - State Licensing Forum

Still skeptical after all these years.
This is it. There are no hidden meanings.WYSIWYG

http://www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

http://www.chiropractormds.homestead.com/index.html

this is the ONLY way to deal with immature fools ...keep em coming i expected this 8)

You can rant and rave as much as you like but if this school is not legitimate, you will be exposed!

IF AZSKEPTIC DONT CLOSE YOU...... ONE OF US MUST. LOL

Best Wishes

This school might be a good idea, but without a loan program this school and ones like it will be dead in the water. I believe this school only has loans for Canadians through CanHelp. So, to the point... Why have a Toronto based company owning an Aruba Medical School that can only cater to Canadian students who will need to go to the USA to finish. Just think of the visa nightmares when trying to get all those J1's, M1's H1B's, etc. for Canadians wanting to set up in the USA, because as it stands now, it is pretty much impossible to get back to Canada to practice.

Loans alone do not make or break a school. As for acquiring loans, it is procedural and takes time. So what's your point? Other schools are facing the same issues. If anything, the whole loan situation has made schools offering lower fees a more appealing choice. This works in ASUM's advantage from what I can see. I suggest you think about your comments before making them.
And where on earth did you get the idea that ASUM caters ONLY to Canadian students? Just because they have a facility in Toronto by no means implies it is tailor made for Canadians ONLY. Do not make assumptions. Any student from any country can apply to the MD program at any school.
As for the Canadian spin, I'm sure you know how hard it is to get into a Canadian medical school? Well, being a Canadian who first considered the Canadian route, let me tell you, with the required minimum required GPA being usually 3.6 and the average GPA to get into medical schools (excluding Macmaster and NOMAD which have somewhat different criteria) in Canada ranging from 3.83-3.86, it's tough. I'm not sure what the standard deviation on that figure is but I assure you, it wouldn't deviate much. Additionally, these are not just bookworm type academic students... these are well rounded students with a multitude of acheivements, extra curricular activities and leadership qualities. Academic merits alone won't gaurantee you a placement. I've known student with 4.0's (on a 4.0 scale) and no extra curriculars who could not get into med school in Canada.
Do you know that Canada has the 2nd highest medical student to country population ratio in the world? 2nd only to Albania. Not to mention Canada is noted to be the toughest country to get into medschool. I knew students who would finish their BSc... apply for med.. not get in... then get a MSc just so they could pad their resume and apply for med... at this point those that still do not get in went on to get their PhD... Extremely lengthy process and the idea of getting into an MD program of 6 years after acquiring a PhD would make many a student think twice if not thrice. A regular BSc student has to not only compete with exceptionally high standards, they also have to compete against MSc's and Phd's to get into medschool in Canada.
Canada doesn't just take the cream of the crop.. they take the fluff that's on the cream. The reasons for such a high standard is based on the simple rule of demand and supply. Canada has VERY LIMITED medical spots open and few medical universities. They have an extremely small supply of post graduate education spots as well. And therein lies the problem. Because of this limited availability of post graduate medical education in canadian teaching hospitals, the medical schools have to limit enrolment to match available spots. Which is another reason why FMG's have such a hard time getting residency spots in Canada. Its not because the canadian government is against FMG.. it's because they barely have enough spots for their own students. The FMG's get whatever few residency spots that are available, which is pretty limited. However, I personally have friends both in the Ministry of Education and Ministry of Health.. so I have bit more of an inside scoop on the situation. Suffice it to say, the Canadian government is working to increase slots and make laws a bit easier. However, beaurocratic redtape does take time.
As for one obvious reply that someone might counter with.. why don't u go to a US medical school? Answer is simple. The Canadian dollar is lower than the American dollar. US fees for med school are off the charts for the regular individual and I have no intention of having a 200G debt.
So to answer your question. Yes.. I personally would take the chance of going through a bit of hassle to get my visas than have no chance at all.
But to harp on the visa issue... You might say.. oh its so hard to get a visa... well you know what.. I've had plenty of friends go through foreign medical schools, graduate, get their visas and practice in the states. Also if u follow the proper procedures.. attain good USMLE scores and not fail them, get US experience, apply for residency in x number years after graduation from medical school, get good letters of reference, make an impression with your preceptors, and do your cores in ACGME hospitals, and if you make a really good impression with a residency director get a post residency spot... you will find that there will be hospitals who are willing to grant you visas.. sure its paperwork for them... but if you are an excellent student, they'll do the extra paperwork. And you won't want to get kicked out of clinical rotations either. Do all this and you'll find your MD degree won't be as valueless as you think... Chances are you won't have to be working in a factory and living at home with your parents with your valueless MD Your best bet is to get mentors who know the ropes and how to attain it. Where there is a will there is a way... cliche but true.
So what does this boil down to? Study and work hard for the goals you set, and don't be the mediocre or average student. Nobody ever said getting an MD degree was easy. If you want something in life, you work for it and attain it...
So yeah... in summary.. I sure as hell would and am taking that route.

important thing to note: many of you are threatning ASUM on the basis of false information..why? some of you lost your flow because you didnt do your research in the past...it seems that you made mistakes because you had trouble doing research to begin with ...based on your arguments ...none of you have proved yourselves to be correct..you guys are just helpless when it comes to researching. It seems there is a lack of research skills amongst many of you. The basis for which you target ASUM are completely based on your own intention to discredit an educational institution without any prior knowledge...the reasons being quite obvious! It burns don't it ...