Let's take this point by point.
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Originally Posted by dthomas
Hi Mikols,
Let�s be honest or rather realistic that we cannot compare the Medical Schools in Caribbean with those in Poland or other countries of the world. We all know that most of the Universities in Caribbean are well organized, and are designed with the standards to help students excel on their USMLE. Furthermore, their selection criteria, unlike medical schools in other countries are extremely competitive. While a student might be able to gain admission at Poznan, Lublin, Silesia, and few other universities without having a bachelors or the MCAT, the schools in Caribbean, and mainly SGU, Ross, AUC, and SABA are strict about the admission criteria. (MCAT, Bachelors, Volunteer work, and interview). Furthermore, the crowd that gets selected in Caribbean is extremely competitive and determined with keen interest in medicine.
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I think that your argument is specious.
Let's begin by separating four year and six year programs for the purposes of this discussion. Earlier, we were discussing HMI's four year programs.
All four year programs are in the same market. That is North American students with pre-reqs (though not necessarily a degree or MCATs) in hand.
The whole point of a four year program is to get the North American student home without delay. Why have 3rd and 4th year US clinical rotations?
Also, not all Carib. school require the MCAT (in fact, until relatively recently, only SGU and AUC among the established ones required it); Saba to my knowledge, still does not.
Regarding the interest in medicine bit, I'd hope that everyone attending a medical school abroad is keen on medicine (otherwise, what the hell are they doing there?)
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Originally Posted by dthomas
(Most of them were in the first cut-off in the US applicant pool), whereas the accepted students for a six-year program in Poland lack the exposure to college education and the intense medical school education, and the ones that are accepted for a four year programs have yet not taken the MCAT and don�t have their bachelors.
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See above. The market for six year programs is significantly different from four year programs.
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Originally Posted by dthomas
LEAVING ALL THAT ADISE, we are in this forum for those who have not been able to make into the US or Caribbean medical schools, and are considering applying to Poland, Hungary, or some other European medical school. Our focus is that� if they plan to get their education in Poland, what are their chances to get the residence position upon graduation.
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Not so fast. Attaining residencies is only
one part of the puzzle.
Licensure (IMO) is even more important in the long run. Additionally, there are many students who have pre-reqs (or are very close to having them done) who should know that coming to this region has its downside and that they should consider other options first.
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Originally Posted by dthomas
As a matter of fact, you yourself have seen that there are many places that are IMG friendly, and the IMG even though will not be able to gain the residence in most competitive field, will at least be able to do residence in either internal medicine, family practice, pediatrics, or psychiatry.
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This, again, IMO is a very specious argument.
Yes, if we limit ourselves to
simply getting a residency in IM/FP/Peds/Psych then you would be correct given:
-At least the current number or a greater number of residencies in those specialties. (BTW, there's a legal limit to the number of total residencies, as they are paid for by the government. Unless the law is changed, this could be a problem.)
-No large scale expansion of either DO (or good Carib.) programs to produce more graduates, who compete with IMGs from the region. (DO schools are expanding like crazy, and as there aren't enough 'attractive' DO residencies, so they compete for allopathic ones; something their own organizations are actively encouraging by waiving DO requirements.)
-Current visa regimens which limit true FMGs (and thereby USIMG competition). (Who knows what will happen.)
However, none of these is a given. No one knows what will happen four or six years down the line.
No one is guaranteed a residency. If competition heats up (see reasons above), guess who'll get squeezed out?
-True FMGs with poor language/cultural skills
-Marginal USIMGs (mostly outside the top USIMG programs or excellent native schools.)
Also, we haven't even discussed the quality of the residencies obtained. There is a large difference between 3 and 4 years at a malignant program that simply uses its residents as bodies to do low-level scut AND a program that cares about education (see specialty board pass rates). Where do you think the less prepared IMG does end up?
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And I think this should be helpful to many students considering to go to Poznan, Lublin, Silesia, or some place else that YES! The IMG�s are able to get a residence position in the US at some hospitals, but, most likely you will be able to gain a position in a less competitive field and would struggle for specialties such as dermatology, neurosurgery, cardiology, and many more.
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See above. Also, we haven't even touched on medical school attrition rates or first time USMLE pass rates, etc...
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Please talk to every single person who you think will be able to guide you before making a decision to go to a medical school in Poland.
Contact the residence directors at the hospitals nearby to see whether they consider an IMG for a residence position, and if they do what factors will be in your favor (USMLE score) and what factors will be against you? (Need bachelors? Need the MCAT? Where you did your rotations?)
dt
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Outside of PDs, who do you think is helpful? (I can tell you that agents and pre-meds are not...)
Miklos